#68 Designing a dream life, Dr. John Demartini, Human Behaviour Expert, Educator & Author
DISCUSSED IN THIS EPISODE
- What caring in the workplace means for Dr. John Demartini
- Creating a life that many dream of, outsourcing everything else
- Designing life to only do four things each day: To teach, read, write, and travel
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Transcript from the interview
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SPEAKERS
Graeme Cowan, Dr. John Demartini
Graeme Cowan 00:05
It’s a real pleasure to welcome John Demartini to the caring Co. Welcome, John.
Dr. John Demartini 00:12
Thank you for having me appreciate you. Give me the opportunity with you.
Graeme Cowan 00:16
What does care in the workplace mean to you, John?
Dr. John Demartini 00:23
When you exaggerate your own importance, and project your values on to others, and minimize theirs, you have carelessness. When you minimize your values and yourself and exaggerate others, you have you walk on eggshells and are careful when you honor your values, and honor other people’s values, and communicate effectively, and respectively, what you want in terms of what they want, you have caring, caring is what keeps rings on fingers and relationships, whether it be at work, or customers or whoever. So caring is basically the ability to communicate what you value in terms of what other people value respectfully.
Graeme Cowan 01:08
And how do we go about doing that?
Dr. John Demartini 01:13
Well, finding out what you know, it’s just like in the selling process, if you’re about to sell something, you can’t, until you’ve established a need and confirmed a need and found out what people really are looking for. You can’t offer a service unless it matches that otherwise, you’re going to get a rejection as a feedback to let you know you’re not caring. So this occurs not only in sales, but it also in executive management or managing people or any type of supervision, leadership roles. So what we do is we care enough to find out what’s really important to them by asking him questions, not telling him but asking questions to establish what it is that they value? And then ask how is that helping us fulfill what we want. So we can establish a caring relationship. If we any two people in a relationship, they’re gonna want to fix each other if they can’t see how their other person’s values serve them. So if you care enough to find out what your customers needs, and then think, how is them meeting those needs, helping you fulfill what your dream is, you will then honor them by communicating effectively in those values and in those names. And that’s caring. If you really, really count on something that you it’s selling is caring, true selling is caring, not artificial selling, but real cares, selling is caring. And real leadership is caring, and real management is caring when you really boil down to it.
Graeme Cowan 02:35
You’ve had an extraordinary life. Would you mind just giving our listeners a brief overview of how you came to be here? Because you shared before we came on air that you’ve been traveling on a ship around the world for the last was it 23 years. And I’m sure people would like to understand how that career evolved.
Dr. John Demartini 02:56
Well, when I was a young teenager, aged eight to 17, I had a dream to travel the world and teach 70 This year, so I’ve been doing it a while. 52 years almost. And I aged 18 I had a dream, to be a citizen of the world. I never really felt like I was holding one spot. I always felt like the whole earth is that way. I read that in Einstein and read that and Socrates writings and Epictetus writings, they always call themselves citizens of the world. And I felt like I wanted to step foot on every country on the face of the earth and have Earth itself is home. And I’ve never away from anybody. I’m always, you know, I live in a big house called Earth and no one’s ever out of my space, you know. And so that’s what I did. And then I found a ship that allowed me to go around the world. And so I, in 2001, when 911 occurred, I was living in Trump Tower in New York. And we had the 62nd floor there. And so we, we decided that after the 911, it wasn’t really a spot at the moment. So we, my wife and I, at the time, who was alive at the time, she passed away, she, she and I decided to move on to a ship and travel the world. And it saved a lot of aggravation in flight because I do a lot of trek. I flown literally 20 million miles. So I’ve been flying for a long time. But sailing is also a little bit more convenient for what I do. And so I now do a lot of podcasts and webinars and all kinds of things from my, from my apartment here on the ship. And I’ve been doing that for since 2001.
Graeme Cowan 04:38
And I understand that you almost died when you’re 18 How did that happen? And how did that influence you?
Dr. John Demartini 04:47
I was a long haired hippie surfer at the time living in Hawaii and the North Shore. And I was running big waves and I was surfing Lonnie k one day and I my diaphragm stopped I don’t know if you’ve ever imagined what that’s like, but you can’t move your diaphragm you can’t breathe. That’s my head diaphragm stop for me. And it was because of a strychnine cyanide compound that I consumed without realizing it. And luckily, I recovered from that. I survived it and recovered from that, and gradually, you know, rebuilt my health. But that was a turning point, that was the perfect thing to happen. Because that led me from surfing, to return to school, I was in high school dropout, lived on the streets at the time and living in a tent at the
time. And I basically decided to try to go back and learn and try to become intelligent and go back to school. And my whole trajectory changed when I had that close call. And so yeah, that was the turning point in what I do today. If it wasn’t for that event, I wouldn’t be doing what I’m doing. Probably I’d be making surfboards on the North Shore.
Graeme Cowan 06:01
And it led to just voracious reading so many books. How did you decide what to read?
Dr. John Demartini 06:10
Well, that’s a great question I, the very first thing I wanted to do is to overcome my learning challenges, because I had a speech impediment and learning problem as a child. And I so I didn’t really read any books until I was 18. And I, then I decided to do go to a dictionary and memorize 30 words a day to grow vocabulary. So I started with a dictionary. And when I moved back from Hawaii to Texas, and I, my mom would test me on 30 words a day until my vocabulary grew enough to where I could read anything. I started reading encyclopedias and dictionaries to try to grow vocabulary. And then I wanted to study the laws of the universe that really rang true to me that whenever that is because there are human laws that are variable and transient and, you know, unlivable. And then there’s universal laws that nobody violates, I wanted to know that so I could build a body of knowledge that would stand the test of time. So I’m not basically not transient opinions of local views, but something that’s universal. So I went to the encyclopedia, and I made a list of all the different disciplines and ologies that a human being could study. And then I pursued, I wanted to read at least 100 books and every one of the ologies, which is now 300, ologies, to try to find the common thread and the most universal principles that I could build a body of knowledge on. And that led me to a vast amount of reading an Albert it’s 31,000 books, so well, and what were the common elements you can between all those ologies? Well, unquestionably, there was a philosopher, a pre Socratic philosopher, Heraclitus, pragmatist, everyone who said, pronounce it. They talked about the unity of opposites. And that seemed to be a very universal principle from Paul Dirac spoke on the principles of quantum mechanics. He talked about, you know, particles and antiparticles pairs of opposites. And this hair cleitus way before quantum theory came about, believe that there was a unity of opposites. And that seems to be a real universal principle, one of the most universal principles there are as the unity of opposites. Another one is the law of the one to many, from the one comes in many, from the many comes the one, gravity is going from many radii into one source, and radiation is going from one into many. And so you’ll find that in sociology, you’ll find monarchy and democracy, one in many in relationships, when you’re dating many you look for the special one, once you got the one you wonder about the many. So the one of them getting the one of the many is a universal principle, so many of the other laws, and eponyms that we use are really derivatives of a few basic laws that seem to be fundamental. And so I want to know those laws. So I could then apply those to human behavior into the fields that I was working on. And I studied the different disciplines based mainly so I could see those laws applied, I found in each of those disciplines, you can find them. So that’s why I was interested in that. Now, whether it’s chemistry and you have nuclear reactions, or electrophilic reactions, attraction, repulsion, unity, or division division, you still have the one to many mechanisms. And so subatomic particle levels on even astronomical galaxies and Super Galaxy Cluster levels, astronomy shows this. So I was interested in what is the most universal principles that will stand the test of time as they apply to human behavior and human physiology and psychology and sociology. And that’s, that’s what I set out to master.
Graeme Cowan 09:50
And you just released a book called The essential of emotional intelligence. What was sort of how does its emotional intelligence relate to some of those things you just talked about?
Dr. John Demartini 10:04
Well, when you infatuate with something, or someone, you’re perceiving consciously more positives or the negatives, and you’re unconscious of the negatives, and therefore you’re impulsively with your amygdala drawn to them, as if it’s prey that you want to consume. If you resent somebody, you’re conscious of the downsides, unconscious of the upsides. And when you are doing that, you’re now blind to the upsides. And now you have an instinct to avoid that as if it’s predator, the thing you’re avoiding and trying to separate from one into many, the thing you’re seeking, you’re trying to take many into singing into one. So the normal impulses and instincts, attractions and repulsions are prey and Predator dynamics and human behavior. Anything that supports or challenges your value you’d like and dislike are the law, the one that many put into now practical application, human behavior, and then to polarity of opposites. Because whatever you seek the opposite, you’re repelled from whatever you infatuated, you resent its opposite. So if you infatuate with intelligence, you may resent ignorance, infatuated with beauty, you may dislike ugly. So this law of the unity of opposites, and also the law of the one of many is sitting inside him human behavior, just the behavior of what we seek and avoid in our whole life is based on perceptions of seek and avoidance going on, every decision we make is based on an assumption that we’re gonna get an advantage without a disadvantage, an advantage, we’re seeking and unifying with a disadvantage we’re trying to divide from. So this is a basic law of the pairs of opposites. It’s inside nature.
Graeme Cowan 11:42
And we’re speaking at, you know, quite a tumultuous time in terms of change, not just in workplaces, but society. And there’s many, many drivers of that, you know, of course, COVID had a really big impact in terms of turning things upside down, challenging workplaces, like they’ve never done before. But one of the, I guess, interesting things is that some of the burnout and the stress that was caused by COVID hasn’t gone, you know, it’s still around, there’s still this legacy. Why do you think that is?
Dr. John Demartini 12:20
Well, there’s two sources of distress or stress, the perception of loss of that which we seek. And the perception of gain of that which we try to avoid. So, in the brain, and the amygdala area of the brain, which is a survival desire center, the perception of loss of that which we seek is the perception of starvation, the perceptual loss of prey. And the other one is the perception gain of predator. So anything that supports our values, let’s say people paying us anything, the challenge of values, let’s say somebody that owes us but doesn’t pay us, or bills, we in our brain perceives prey and Predator. So we seek an avoidant, and anytime we seek something, we fear, its loss. And we have distress, anytime we avoid something we fear, it’s gain, we have distress. So when COVID came along, we had distress, because we were not able to get what we were looking for, and we kept getting what we didn’t want. Yeah. And so as long as we have that perception, and think it’s the outside world doing it to us, we’re going to live in that illusion. It’s not the outside, it’s our perception of the outside or our attachment to that, as the Buddha described. The Buddha says that, that which is that to, to not get what you want, and to get what you don’t want as a source of human suffering, you know, to to seek that which is unavailable and try to avoid that which is unavoidable is the source of human suffering is it. So as long as we have a highly polarized view of something, that this is positive, and this as negative, we’re going to have a lack of resilience in our mind, because resilience is the ability to have it come and go without a reaction. And non resilience is we’re attached to that we fear its loss, and we’re attached to avoid it, we fear its gain. So the more polarized our perception, the less resilience we have, and the more neutralize our perception more objective, we are not subject to the bias. The more resilient we are more adept we are and the more we can adapt to a changing environment. That’s what distress is. It’s the inability to adapt to a changing environment.
Graeme Cowan 14:25
Yeah. It’s also been a contribution to the breakdown in in connection and belonging in the workplace. And some of that, you know, is where people aren’t coming to the office as much. You know, there’s a growth in work from home there’s also a growth in, in hybrid. How do we how do we improve our empathy and connect with people when they may not be with us physically? Well, people make decisions based on what they perceive
Dr. John Demartini 15:00
He will give him the greatest advantage or disadvantage. In fact, the word decide means to bring death to an option. Homicide suicide insecticide patricide, matricide, genocide means bring death to something, decide means to bring death to an option and to avoid and to seek. So anytime where, you know, we have a highly polarized perspective, we got lack of resilience, and we’re not adaptable. And so what we can do is neutralize our perception and find out how something were resistant helps us. So if we perceive right now there’s more advantage staying home than going to work, we’re going to want to stay home. If we perceive as more advantaged going to work than staying at home, we’re gonna want to go to work. So if you want people to come to work, the organization has the responsibility to give them the reasons why being there is to their advantage, and to show them the downsides. Otherwise, you’re gonna want to stay home. And so I, I, I told the people when they want to stay home, can I stay home? And I said, Well, the thing is, is here’s the advantages to you and to the company, but to you of being here, you’re going to interact with people, somebody can rely on you, if you’re away like that. You don’t have to catch them. And we gave them the benefits, and then they migrated back to work. If I didn’t give enough benefits outweigh their decision, they’re going to want to take the road of what do you think gives them most advantage? More convenient? Yeah, yeah, I heard a friend described that as making a magnet rather than a mandate, you know that. Exactly. Making a magnet Exactly. Well said, yeah, about really, really providing something for doing it. If you’d give give enough reasons for doing it, they’ll do it and doesn’t have to be money necessarily doesn’t have to incentives always based on their values, not just a general value, like money, finding out what their values are, and finding out how it will help them fulfill their values. This is what caring is.
Graeme Cowan 16:55
And that’s, you know, how she planned it out. She invited them to be part of the process of working out what would work best for the most number of people. And, you know, I think that is much better than a mandate, which, you know, it’s just thinking from one person’s perspective, primarily one person’s perspective.
Dr. John Demartini 17:17
Yeah, well, a magnet versus a mandate, I think, is a magnificent way of describing it, whoever gave that term is brilliant, because that’s what it is. People are magnetized where there’s more advantage and disadvantage, and and there’s no reason why you can’t come up with what those advantages are. You just have to get creative and think and make sure it’s a win to them. Why would they? Why would they do it if they don’t get a win out of it? Why paper? You know, people aren’t loyal to you, nobody’s loyal to a company, they’re loyal to their values. And if they can fulfill their values in what you’re offering, they’ll come you got to give them something that is the allocation of job responsibilities in their mind have to be perceived as something that fulfills what they value otherwise, they’re not interested. They’re not engaged. They’re Theory X and Theory Y people. Yeah.
Graeme Cowan 18:01
So thanks, Louise, for that great term magnets, it’s obviously resonated with with John very much how there’s there are big issues in mental health in the workplace, you know, it’s claims stress claims arising, you know, 20% per year. And one of the big things that seems to not be working is managers, being able to establish an able to listen with empathy, with what’s going on with people, to build rapport, and to encourage action. And so the empathy side of things, I’m really interested from your perspective about what can managers do to really make a person feel heard and understood.
Dr. John Demartini 18:54
When two people are in a relationship, if this person here is not inspired and engaged in what’s really important to them, they go into their amygdala. See, when somebody lives according with their highest values, their blood glucose and oxygen goes into the forebrain. And they live more objective and they have a more actual perspective on what equity theory provides, which is equilibrium. The moment they go into something they’re not wanting to do at work, their amygdala comes online. The amygdala tends to want us to be proud and to be right, and to look for fantasies and ease over difficulty. So what we do is we tend to think self righteous, you Our opinion is more important than the next person’s. If they’re doing the same thing. You’ve got to clash. Two people’s opinions are clashing. You have empathy and to have consideration and caring. You have to find out whatever you perceive, and then where do you do it? This is a real important question. Whenever you judge somebody, you’re too humble or too proud to admit what you see in them as inside you. And whenever you love somebody, you’re able to have reflective awareness, which is Pure Reason and philosophy, where you can actually see that whatever they’ve done, you’ve done in your own form, the moment you see that what you see in them is inside you, you level the playing field. And now you care about their needs as much as your own. But if not, you’re going to self righteousness, and you think your needs are more important than them. And that’s where mandate comes instead of magnet comes. And so the second user can see how, what they’re committed to what their values are, and establish what those are, and ask questions to establish those needs. And then find a way of helping those people get those needs, if you care enough about that individual, because they’re important in your company to do so. If you help them get what they want to get in life, they hope you get what you want to get life. And that’s the nonzero sum game productivity factor.
Graeme Cowan 20:45
Yeah, very much. So. How do you how do you understand what their values are?
Dr. John Demartini 20:52
Well, I have a set of criteria on my website, Dr. demartini.com, that’s free companies use it all the time. It’s private. It’s a 13 questionnaire to help establish what those are. But you look at how they fill their space. I was doing presentation at the Corning company in Corningware in New York, 14 Corning New York. And it’s a glass building. It’s an amazing building when it first got constructed. And I walked to the cubicles, I sat down with the CEO and went through their cubicles before I was about to speak. And I saw in people’s cubicles, how they fill their space, what was important to them in one person’s a cubicle with their work office, their bowling trophies everywhere. So that ought to tell me that bowling is important this guy. Another one was that there were pictures everywhere of your kids. Another one had electronic gadgetry all over the place. So you look at how people feel their space and what they keep around them and what they engage in in their space. And that tells you what is valuable to them. How they spend their time, because they always make time find time and spend time on things that are important to them. What energizes them when they’re doing something, the time value, their energy goes up, when they’re doing things won’t have value, the energy drained. Where do they spend their money, they make money, find money and spend money on things that are valuable to them, where’s their money going? I look at what it is they’re most organized and ordered in. Because whatever is highest value, there’s order to it. I look at where they’re most disciplined, reliable and focused, where they spontaneously do things that nobody has to motivate them to do extrinsically. I look at what they think about visualize and affirm internally with their dialogue about how they want their life that shows evidence and coming true, it has to have evidence, I look at what they want to keep bringing conversations to talk about the most, I look at what it is it is inspiring to them and brings tears to their eyes when they discuss it. I look at what it is that they’ve had his persistent, consistent goals that they keep making come true. And I look at what they come spontaneously want to read, study and learn about on YouTube the most. And they all indicate what’s valuable to them. And if you care enough to pay close attention to those variables, their life will reveal it. If you ask them what is valuable to them, they’ll tell you social idealisms, honesty, integrity, peace and all that other stuff. But if you look at what their life demonstrates their life demonstrates their values. And if you care enough to know what their values are, and honor that and not think you’re as a superior, but just see how that serves you. You will then care and communicate and magnet instead of mandate. Yeah.
Graeme Cowan 23:29
It’s a big challenge, isn’t it to be so present, that you’re able to observe that what Karen is about is about caring. But sometimes we can be so busy in our own heads that it’s hard to see that recognize that. So it seems that a an important part of that is being really present almost having a beginner’s mind. How do you do that? What do you find? How do you get in the moment?
Dr. John Demartini 24:04
Well, if you’re not dedicating your life to what’s highest on your value, and delegate what’s lowest on priorities, you’re not going to be present. You’re going to be scattered by all the impulsive behaviors and reactions that you have from from external motivations. So I learned a trick that I learned from Alan McKenzie in his book the time track when I was 27. So it goes way back. I made a list of everything that I did in a day, everything that went on in a day, not vague generalities like marketing or sales or whatever, but the actual daily action steps that I did to get those those outcomes and I made a list of every anxious to find it over about a three month period, anything I might do in a week or a day. I wrote them all down. Once I wrote that down, I took a look honestly about how he was spending my time and I immediately saw that I was minoring in majors and majoring in minors when I stopped really looked at it. Then next to it in another column in a six column evaluation, I wrote down how much does that produce per hour? That action? Because if I’m doing something that serves another human being in meets their needs, they’re willing to pay for it. If they’re not willing to pay for it doesn’t mean anybody’s named, I want to know, what is it produced per hour. And I wrote down the dollar per hour what its equivalent was, if I spent half hour on it, and I multiply it times two, if I spent two hours on divided by half. And I wrote down what exactly does it produce to find out what my productivity was? Then on the third column, I wrote down, how much meaning does it have? If it’s a 10? It’s something that I spontaneously intrinsically and called to do, I feel this is my calling, I love doing this. And if it’s a low, it’s something I got to do at a duty. If it’s not, if it’s not something I’m inspired by, it’s something I duty, and I put a one to 10 scale on it, to find out really what inspires me, and what is it that that really is feeding my energy and enthusiasm. And then I I rearrange that full list according to what produces the most to least, and what has the most meaning to least. And then I look at where the most meaningful thing where I can’t wait to get up in the morning and do it and the most fulfilling productivity, the income, and I find out which ones overlap. So I know where to target energies, then I go in and make another list of if I was to hire somebody to do that responsibility, what would it cost, not just their salaries, but every cost, their space usage, their equipment, everything, their parking, you know, their insurance, everything. And I look at what the cost is. And then I look at what the spread is between what it produces and what it cost. When I get through that. I now have a real a better idea of what needs to be delegated what needs to be done and which one’s inspiring, and which ones I’m engaged in which ones I’d be having to be motivated to do. And then I write down how much time is actually required for that activity in a day. And then I do a final prioritization, factoring all the variables. And then I layer that into 10 layers. And I put job descriptions on layer by layer by layer, and I hire somebody to release the rest. Because if you’re not doing the highest priority thing that produces the most, it’s the most meaningful in your life, you’re not going to be present, you’re not going to be inspired, you’re not going to be in your executive center in the state of objectivity. You’re not going to have the most caring attitude, because you’re not doing what you love on a daily basis, and you’re wearing yourself down. People that are doing the highest priority things when they come home, they’re they can manage almost anything, when they’re not, and they’re putting fires out. They’re doing low priority things and devaluing themselves. And frustrating creating symptoms, their symptoms are trying to guide them back to authenticity, which is an expression of what they value most. So I’m interested in doing that, to help the overall engagement and inspiration and accompany it was Peter Lynch, and is one up on Wall Street that said something really brilliant back in the 90s. He said after I do my quantitative and qualitative and technical, you know, analysis on my stocks, and to look at what the intrinsic value of the company really is. I then go and visit after I’ve selected a few of the possible companies, they go and visit and fly on my jet over to where they are to the headquarters. And I’m looking for people that are inspired by their job. They’re enthusiastically working, they’re grateful for the opportunity to do it. They love what they’re doing. They’re present with their customers, and they are, you know, confidential and certain about their, what their actions are. If I see those six transcendental states, I know I buy it because that company is going up in value. That’s because they’re engaged.
Graeme Cowan 28:36
I really love that. And you know, the whole process you went through, you know what, what turns you on what inspires you what lights you up, and I heard Charlie Munger who’s now passed away, but he was one of the Warren Buffett’s partner, and he was talking about planning the year ahead. And so he would write down 10 things that he wanted to achieve in the Euro headers in January, then it would go about ruling out seven of those said his job for the year was to do those three and not do the seven, which is quite similar to what you decide you’re really choosing things that you find inherently motivating. And I think tap into your purpose, your sense of purpose.
Dr. John Demartini 29:21
That’s it. You just nailed it. Yeah, I learned a long time ago, I learned from Mary Kay, I’m speaking at Mary Kay Cosmetics company in Dallas, Texas at the Anatole about 4500 Women number of years ago, 30 years or 40 years ago. And I asked her what advice she could give a young guy who wants to travel the world and teach. And she said write down every day, the six or seven things that you do, that’s the highest priority things you could do that day to help you fulfill your dreams. So I kept record of those on index cards. What are the highest priority actions I can do today to help me fulfill my dreams? And I kept him and I looked at what was the ones that keep repeatedly showing up? And for me, it was to research right and travel the world. So today, I only teach research, write and travel, everything else is delegate, I’m useless. Or have driven a car in 34 years, I have a cleaners, concierge, and pilots and everything is taken care of by specialists who love what they’re doing. And I surround myself with people that are inspired by what they do. So I can do it. My expertise says my core competence that I can’t wait to get up in the morning and do is when you can’t wait to get up in the morning and do what it is you love to do. People can’t wait to get that service.
Graeme Cowan 30:34
Yeah, very much, very much. So what is, you know, for someone who heard this and says, Yeah, that makes sense. What would be a first step that would put them on the right path?
Dr. John Demartini 30:48
Well, that exercise I just gave us would be one is to prioritize and take a look at what you’re really doing. Yeah. People say, Well, that’s easy for you. You’re independently wealthy. And you you know, you live on a big yacht and all that stuff. I said, No. And people say what you think when you get there, then I can do it? No, I did that. That’s what got me there. Yeah, yeah, that’s a very prioritized if you’re not filling your day with high priority actions that truly inspire and serve, your day is going to fill up at low party distractions to let you know that, yeah, it’s holding you accountable. And real accountability is that it’s holding you accountable to stick to what’s really the most important service you can provide, and the most important skill you’ve got. And sticking to that core competence. Munger and Buffett both acknowledged that in their own journey, and that’s the that’s the key.
Graeme Cowan 31:37
Yeah. How do you keep fuel in your own tank? How do you practice self care?
Dr. John Demartini 31:44
I have I delegate lots of stuff. You know, I do my little exercise every week, I uh, I eat very well have people that take care of me and give me the perfect ideal diet. You know, I mean, I’ve got everything kind of organized for that. So I really don’t have much to do. I drink my bottle of water every day. You know, I I eat very cool, I don’t live to eat I don’t live for You know, I don’t ever add sugar to my diet. I’ve never eaten sweets in 52 years. I don’t live to eat, I eat to perform. And I fill my day with with. I have programs throughout the day, almost every day, seven days a week some I can’t wait to do and when you have something you can’t wait to do on a daily basis. You’re not interested in indulging or not. You know, the impulsive compulsive addictive behaviors are byproducts of unfulfilled highest values. So I just fill my day with the things I love and I delegate everything else away. And that’s one of the keys to having an executive functioning mind where you’re more objective and more caring, and more sustainable fair exchange orientation and philanthropy than it is debauchery which is a narcissistic pursuit.
Graeme Cowan 33:01
And with regards to movement and exercise, how often do you do that? Is it Do you few days a week or how does it work?
Dr. John Demartini 33:12
My mouth is exercising every day. My mouth is on the cover of black magazine not have magazine. But, you know, I go to the gym once a week. I do push ups. I do 525 Push Ups. Now. I can do that. And I do some curls. And I do some things in the gym. I do elliptical because jogging because it’s not wise on the knees. I do elliptical, I keep the you know, ideal weight as best I can. I’m pretty I don’t fluctuate more than two pounds. I’m I’ve been doing that for many years. And I do I use it, I do some yoga. And I’m you know, sometimes there’s different activities here on the ship that I may do. And I go swimming, and I surf still. And so those are my activities. And I just I don’t drink coffee, alcohol or you know, I don’t I’m simply a water guy and a Jewish mystical Jewish guy.
Graeme Cowan 34:04
Yeah, amazing, amazing. With regards to relationships, and building long and sustainable relationships, and I’m sure you’re aware of the Harvard Human Development Study, which showed that a thriving life that having quality relationships was the best predictor of that. What thoughts do you have about that about not not just being able to see people regularly and have a good time, but I think an important element is also being able to be vulnerable with with someone that you want to build a long term relationship with. Do you have any tips or insights around that?
Dr. John Demartini 34:42
Well, anything that causes a reaction relationship is a disowned part. So anything that you can’t own in yourself that you’re too proud or too humble to admit that you have becomes the button in the relationship dynamic there to teach you represent relationships that you try to be out there. Nik is going to give you feedback. If you get cocky and exaggerate yourself, they humbly if you get down, they lift you into trying to get you authentic. So I went ahead and went to the Oxford Dictionary, the largest dictionary I could. And I went through and underlined every possible human behavioral trait. And then I wrote out to the side of the dictionary, who is the most extreme example this trait that I’m aware of, that I’ve actually interacted with. And then I went in there and looked at where and when do I display that trait and look until I find where I have it to the degree that I see in the most extreme people. And I found that had all 4628 traits nice, mean kind, cruel, honest, dishonest, pleasant, unpleasant, considered and considered to have them all. And any trait you disown is a trade that somebody in a relationship is going to push a button and cause a reaction. So I learned to own so I can see myself and other people, which helps me have empathy and care more effectively and more respectfully. So I say own all the traits. Nothing’s missing in a fully actualized individual, nothing’s missing. I said in theology that, at the level of the essence of the soul, nothing’s missing. You have aroma and fulfillment. At the level of the existence of the senses, we have an emptiness and Kanuma. And each of those things that we think are missing are things were too proud or too humble to admit that we see another’s inside ourselves. We put people on pedestals, we put people in pits, instead of putting them in our hearts, we put them in our hearts, we care, we put them on a pedestal, we’re careful, put them in the pit, we’re caring less, we put them in our hearts for caring, and caring and sustainable fair exchange. When when or nonzero sum game or whatever you want to describe it as equity theory, those are the ones that create the most sustaining and the most healthy relationship dynamics.
Graeme Cowan 36:46
How do you stay in contact with people with those people that are important to you?
Dr. John Demartini 36:55
Well, today, we’ve got WhatsApp. We’ve got social media messages, we’ve got emails, I still use whatsapp and emails most of the time. I mean, there’s other Facebook to the face, Time over. There’s other things that I’ve used, but most of the time, it’s, it’s WhatsApp and the really highest priority people I’ve got on WhatsApp, and the rest of them are on some sort of email, and I do quite a few emails. Now. I don’t answer everything that could be I mean, I’ve got front of millions of people, you can’t possibly answer everything, people figure out your emails, I have people gatekeepers to try to help me with some of that. But the people that are most inspiring to me, I try to find out what their values are, I asked how specifically is what they’re dedicated to helping me fulfill what I’m dedicated to and vice versa, try to have a caring relationship with that. And I keep in contact with those people that are core people in my life.
Graeme Cowan 37:45
What are the big challenges for managers, and we’ve sort of touched on this in different ways, maybe not using this term, but as to build psychological safety in a team, you know, where people can be their authentic self, where people can feel safe trying things, take moderate risks, to better serve their customers or their colleagues. And know that if it doesn’t work out, we’ll just learn from it move forward. And yet, in a lot of corporate environments, that’s very, can be very difficult to achieve. In reality, there’s lots of other things that influence that. So as a manager in a large organization, what can you do to control runway? What can you do to create the right culture in that team? Where people do feel her? Well, they do feel they’re understood. And they’re also, you know, building progress. You know, they’ve seen progress. They’re being rewarded for that progress. And I know you touched on some of these things in your previous answers, but I’m just interested, you know, walking into a new team, what are the steps that you would recommend?
Dr. John Demartini 38:59
Hire eight people not see people. Hire people that know way more about it than you. Yeah, I don’t. I’m not an expert in it, technology. I got a guy that does it. So I don’t, I can’t judge the guy, the appointment guy. He has to learn something. He goes back and he doesn’t he hasn’t he has his own intention to try to get that done. I asked two things when I’m hiring people. I take the job description that I believe is the job description, which is evolving constantly. And I take the mission of the company the primary objectives that the life my life demonstrates not the fantasy ones, but the real life demonstrations. And I when I hire somebody, I asked him how specifically is this job duty helping you fulfill what’s most meaningful to your highest value, which I also determined ahead. If they can’t answer it, I don’t hire if there’s not a fluid congruent response, and they can’t see how that job duties helping them fulfill what they’re most inspired by I don’t hire him because I’m not going to get an engaged person. And when I don’t have an engaged person, I’m gonna have to micromanage and I’m gonna end up being, you know, the mandate, not the magnate. Yeah. And so the second, it’s somebody who’s inspired by the company and inspired by their job description, they’re free, they often they go, then I can just monitor the results and just in give feedback on the results, I don’t have to micromanage. I don’t have time to micromanage people, I don’t micromanage.
Graeme Cowan 40:27
You just hire the right people get the right people in the roles.
Dr. John Demartini 40:33
And I got an I made sure I get people that are greater added to me if you get people that are near you.
Graeme Cowan 40:45
You just just broke up and I couldn’t froze for about the last 1520 seconds or so. I don’t know if you remember what you said just in the last 20 seconds, was talking about.
Dr. John Demartini 41:00
Not surround yourself with people. If you surround yourself with people that are more experts in you in the field that you’re delegating you liberate yourself from micromanagement, and arrogance. But the second you think you know more than them, then you’re going to be basically the right and make them wrong. And you’re in a right wrong absolutism instead of a relativism and an appreciation for their skills. Hire somebody that you respect. And watch the difference. Yeah.
Graeme Cowan 41:27
It’s been a real pleasure catching up today, John. And obviously, people can find out more with your new book, essentials of emotional intelligence. How else can they you know, connect more with your knowledge and your philosophy and and benefit from it
Dr. John Demartini 41:43
Go to Dr. demartini.com? Yeah, if they go there that that website could keep them busy and learning and for a long time. It’s filled with information to help them. Yeah, that’s just Dr. demartini.com. Or follow me on youtube or whatever you want. But that’s the that’s the place to find me.
Graeme Cowan 42:01
Yep, that’s fantastic. And I guess one final question, which I always finish with, and that’s knowing what you know, now, approaching 70? What advice would you give your 17 year old self as a surfer on the beach in Hawaii? What What advice would you share with that person?
Dr. John Demartini 42:21
I just tell them, thank you for following your heart and going with what you know, and you’re on track, dude. I wouldn’t change a thing. Anything you can’t say thank you for in life has baggage. I don’t have that I don’t I don’t live in the idea that I should have done this. So those are all injected values by our authorities. I followed my heart and I did what I love doing and I’m, I’ve got a magnificent life. So I have, I’d say thank you for being exactly who you are, and doing exactly what you did for getting where we are. So thank you, nothing to change.
Graeme Cowan 42:32
I also read that he kept a gratitude journal for 37 years. Why? a gratitude journal.
Dr. John Demartini 43:02
Time I was born on Thanksgiving Day in America. So I’ve been I have the longest and largest. It’s 36 volumes, 9000 pages.
Graeme Cowan 43:08
It just broke up again. So I’ll repeat the question about about the credit gratitude journal. So make sure that I got it. This is just the moment I read that you kept a gratitude journal for a very long time. John, can you tell us a bit about there?
Dr. John Demartini 43:24
I’ve been doing a gratitude journal for as far as I can go back. I was born on Thanksgiving day, my mom told me to count my blessings. I wrote a book called count your blessings years ago. And it’s 9000 pages 36 volumes of gratitudes. I do it every single day. And you’re already listed. This interviews already written before I got on today. Well, wow. And how long is it? How many words do you write? Is it in handwriting or type it or no, it’s typed. Now it’s typing. Originally, it was handwritten. Now it’s tight. And yeah, it’s one inch margins, 10 point print. And I take every single day, every opportunity, everything every when I got an interview, and I got to meet somebody, go to dinner, learn something, write a book, whatever it is, I document everything that I’m grateful for on a daily basis. And I kept that and that’s absolutely an inspiration for me to go back again.
Graeme Cowan 44:15
And I know the research shows the benefits of being grateful, you know, the massive, massive and to do it and that discipline away for that longer time. It helps to challenge your negativity bias, doesn’t it when you think about how many things we have to be grateful for.
Dr. John Demartini 44:31
But anytime we’re expecting ourselves to be anything but authentic, we automatically get feedback to teach us how to be grateful because when we’re living by priority, we’re grateful. We’re getting things done. So I don’t have any I don’t have any distractions or low priority stuff to do that. And that’s, you know, I learned from Maslow about self actualization, and I wanted to master my life since I was 18. And I said, How do you do that? And so I’ve been working, tweaking it that process since I was 18. And sooner or later, you kind of go if you stay with something long enough, everybody else dies out, you end up somewhere at the top.
Graeme Cowan 45:06
Thanks so much, John, for being part of the caring CEO. Thanks for sharing your knowledge and your wisdom. And yeah, I look forward to following your journey some more.
Dr. John Demartini 45:15
Thank you appreciate the opportunity to be on your show. Thank you.
Graeme Cowan 45:20
Excellent. Thanks, John. That was fantastic. Really fantastic. Thank you. It’s, yeah, wonderful to hear that and to Yeah, to hear how that life has evolved for you. It’s, you know, one of the privileges of doing this is just to hear what amazing people have done and, and I must share with my wife that this travel thing is that’s pretty good.
Dr. John Demartini 45:42
Yeah, we’re coming to Sydney in October, I’ll be coming into Sydney I will be selling into into the search at a key and in Melbourne and a few places there. Oh, so we’ll be there.
Graeme Cowan 45:52
Oh, check it out. That’d be fantastic.Good.
Dr. John Demartini 45:55
Yes, definitely. Yeah. I’ve been I was married to a woman from Australia.
Graeme Cowan 45:59
Right.
Dr. John Demartini 46:00
She passed away. Yeah, we had a lovely lady from Australia. But we and there’s a lot of there’s some people live on the ship here that are from Australia. Right. And staff from Australia too.
Graeme Cowan 46:12
Right, right. Yeah. Yeah. It’s, uh, sorry, sorry that you lost your wife. And it’s been very, very tough.
Dr. John Demartini 46:20
Well, now, where are you located right now?
Graeme Cowan 46:22
Sydney.
Dr. John Demartini 46:23
Sydney. I’m, I’m flying into Sydney from Singapore or something like that in in I think June. I’m coming to do one of my programs in June there and just there for a few days, and then I’ll be selling back there in October.
Graeme Cowan 46:39
Oh, fantastic. Fantastic. Awesome. I’ll check that out. Enjoy the rest of your day and I really appreciate your time.
Dr. John Demartini 46:47
Thank you. Appreciate it. Enjoy.
Graeme Cowan 46:50
You too.
