#92 High Performance Habits, James Laughlin, Author & Keynote Speaker

DISCUSSED IN THIS EPISODE

High Performance Habits, James Laughlin, Author & Keynote Speaker

We’re delighted to feature James Laughlin, author of Habits of High Performers, on this episode of The Caring CEO.

James’ story is remarkable. Growing up in Northern Ireland, he was often in trouble at school until a headmaster saw potential where others saw problems and handed him a pair of drumsticks. That simple act of belief changed the trajectory of his life.

Through relentless practice and commitment, James became a 7-time World Champion drummer before reinventing himself as a high-performance coach, working with elite athletes, business leaders, politicians and organisations around the world.

In this conversation, James shares the habits and mindsets that drive sustainable high performance. Importantly, he challenges the idea that success is simply about achievement. His definition of high performance is:

“Consistently exceeding norms whilst maintaining healthy relationships and wellbeing.”

What struck me most was the overlap between James’ work and the themes we regularly explore on The Caring CEO: self-care, caring relationships, psychological safety and helping people perform at their best.

Whether you’re leading a business, managing a team or simply looking to improve your own wellbeing and effectiveness, you’ll find practical and actionable insights throughout this conversation.

RESOURCES

Transcript from the interview

Disclaimer: The following transcript was generated using a specific tool. It serves as a convenient method for converting our podcasts into text and allows for easy text searches. However, we kindly ask for your understanding if any typos have inadvertently occurred as a result of the tool’s usage.

SPEAKERS

Graeme Cowan, James Laughlin

Graeme Cowan: It’s a real pleasure to welcome James Laughlin to The Caring CEO. Welcome, James.

James Laughlin: Oh, such a pleasure to be here, Graeme. Thank you for having me.

Graeme Cowan: It’s my pleasure. What does care in the workplace mean to you?

James Laughlin: It’s interesting, when you asked me that question, I started to go back through all the workplaces that I’ve been a part of.

James Laughlin: As a staff member. And care, to me, kindness comes to mind, people treating each other well, but also, curiosity.

James Laughlin: I remember I went to Vancouver, Canada as a young fellow, and was with a team

James Laughlin: And the leader of that team came up to me, I was 2 weeks into being with the team, and he says, James.

James Laughlin: What do you think of the strategy?

James Laughlin: What? I’m like, I mean, 18, 19 years old, you’re asking me what I… I felt seen, I felt like I mattered, I felt like he cared about me. So, I think the curiosity piece is really what it’s all about, being curious, being kind.

Graeme Cowan: I really love that, and I know that, you know, psychological safety is seen as the biggest predictor of innovative and successful teams.

Graeme Cowan: And an important part of that is everyone feels heard. Even, you know, introverts ask questions, and they often come out with really great answers, because they’ve thought well about it, so that’s a great thing. And feeling heard.

Graeme Cowan: you know, it does show that someone cares if I ask you that question. I interviewed an amazing leader called Bob Chapman, who wrote a book called Everybody Matters.

Graeme Cowan: Unfortunately, he just passed away about a month ago, but he built a business from

Graeme Cowan: 20 million to $3.6 billion.

Graeme Cowan: And he said the real insight for him was that, you know, he first of all thought that Kieran was going and talking with people.

Graeme Cowan: But, he later realized you show your care by listening with empathy. And, you know, it just demonstrates what you talked about. Even as a 19-year-old, you felt involved and engaged and all that sort of thing.

James Laughlin: 100%, and I think that listening is the key, you know. I had a… 6 years ago, I had a group, a leadership group I was running, and it was leaders from all different industries, CEOs, and there was one athlete in the group, and this one athlete happened to be the… the captain of the All Blacks rugby team at the time.

James Laughlin: And I noticed that every time we met.

James Laughlin: 2 or 3 hours at a time, he was the last one to speak. Often for the first 90 minutes, he said nothing.

James Laughlin: And he’d be taking notes, and nodding, and looking, and then when he came to speak.

James Laughlin: he spoke to, well, look, James, I heard what you said here at the start of the conversation. This is what I’m thinking. Can you tell me more about this? Hey, John, I heard what you said over here. He showed us all that he’d been listening deeply. And arguably, he’s the most successful person at the table. Yet, he was the most curious, and he listened rather than spoke.

Graeme Cowan: Yeah, yeah, counts for a lot, doesn’t it? It really does. And I think it also demonstrates that

Graeme Cowan: the leader doesn’t pretend to know everything, because there’s no leader that knows everything now, but hearing those insights does really ensure that, hopefully the right information is on the table to make the best decision, so.

James Laughlin: Absolutely.

Graeme Cowan: Very, very, very engaging.

Graeme Cowan: James, you had a bit of an interesting background in Northern Ireland. Would you mind telling our listeners a bit about that?

James Laughlin: Yeah, Graeme, for those that are not familiar with Northern Ireland, it’s a beautiful country, and, I mean, if you ever go there, you’ll feel very well looked after, they’re very hospitable, but for many decades, Northern Ireland’s been torn apart by religion, and religious divide, Catholics and Protestants.

James Laughlin: And I grew up understanding that, and witnessing that, and, you know, sometimes being pretty close to some of that. And so, from a young age, I wanted to travel and see the world, and I was very fortunate to have a hobby.

James Laughlin: And I came across this hobby from my headmaster’s office, being in there for all the wrong reasons. So I was in there as a young 9-year-old getting punished for bad behaviour, and he’s what I call a possibilitarian. Someone who, instead of looking at problems, as in me being the problem child.

James Laughlin: All he looked at was possibilities. So, instead of detention, he gave me a set of drumsticks.

James Laughlin: And that’s all he did, and planted a seed, and he encouraged me. And very fortunately, it became a passion, and this hobby, and I really wanted to be the world’s best drummer. And so that’s what initially got me traveling from Northern Ireland, was to compete at the World Championships. At 13 years of age was the time I first went.

Graeme Cowan: Wow, wow. And what did, you know, building that skill

Graeme Cowan: In drumming due to your self-esteem.

James Laughlin: You know, I was a kid that didn’t really have a lot of other talent, or wasn’t being praised for being a great footballer. Northern Ireland football is the biggest thing.

James Laughlin: I was not good. I had two left feet, Graeme. So there was never gonna be a George Best one from me, that’s for sure. So, when I got praise, it made me feel good, and it made me double down on practicing more, getting better. And so, for me, I really understood from a young age, it’s not about talent.

James Laughlin: Life is not about talent, because I didn’t have a lot of drumming talent.

James Laughlin: It was about skills and hard work.

James Laughlin: And so, from a young age, I was doing 2 to 4 hours a day. On the weekends, it would have been 6 to 8 hours a day, but getting results. And I thought, there’s a connection between hard work and commitment.

James Laughlin: And results. So it really taught me a lot about that, and certainly my self-esteem built from that.

Graeme Cowan: It was, you know, as I understand it, it was almost like two parts to your career. The first part was, you know, building an elite drumming skill, and the habit, and all that sort of thing. And then, as I understand it, you then…

Graeme Cowan: evolved into coaching. Would you mind just letting our listeners know about that evolution, and I guess, some of the important steps you took, and what were some of the challenges, you know, to make that transition?

James Laughlin: Yeah, Graeme, like many listeners, I’m sure we come to a point in our lives where there’s a transition, and we maybe get bored, or we get burnt out, or we have a major failure, and it’s like, well, something has to change, I need to go in a different direction. And so, for me, as a drummer.

James Laughlin: I won my first world title at 13, I then went on to win another 6. And I came down to New Zealand to help a team here, and they became the first ever from New Zealand to go and win the World Championships. I’d sold drums, played drums, competed as a drummer.

James Laughlin: I got to the point in my mid to late 20s where I started to get a little bored, and a little burnt out. I wasn’t in a good place, and I was…

James Laughlin: drinking heavily. Drinking to celebrate successes, drinking to, when I didn’t have success, to de-stress, to get to sleep.

James Laughlin: And it really wasn’t a healthy relationship. So I’ve seen this advert come up, and you’ll laugh when I say it, but it was in Sydney, Australia.

James Laughlin: for, it was called UPW, Tony Robbins Unleashed the Power Within.

James Laughlin: And I thought, I need to go to that. I don’t know who this guy is, you know, but he seems very interesting, and this seems like what I need to do. So I went over there for 4 or 5 days, didn’t sleep hardly at all in 4 days of 18-hour days.

James Laughlin: Some of it was great, some of it wasn’t, but what was amazing, I had an epiphany on day two where I went, huh.

James Laughlin: I’ve been James the Drummer for all these years.

James Laughlin: But what I’m seeing and hearing is.

James Laughlin: I actually have a different skill set here, that I can actually help others become high performers in their careers, their chosen industries. So I came back to New Zealand, I’d never been to university, I just came straight to, you know, New Zealand as a kid, so I came back over here from Sydney.

James Laughlin: At 30, decided I’ll go back to uni. I wanted to get a degree, so I got a bachelor’s degree in management and leadership.

James Laughlin: I then went to the ICF, the International Coaching Federation, and got accredited as a coach, and started working with all sorts of people in leadership and business. Started to see results, and then a local rugby team called Canterbury Rugby. This is where it all kind of took off.

James Laughlin: Canterbury Rugby seen the results I was getting with people in sport and in business, They brought me in.

James Laughlin: And a lot of these players play with the All Blacks, so they play for the big, big super teams. And so that really started to build momentum, and large corporates started to catch on and go, James, well, could you do that with us? So, Graeme, in a lot of ways, it was organic.

James Laughlin: But I led with curiosity. I didn’t want to sit in the boredom, or suffer in that pain of…

James Laughlin: drinking my life away, and I thought, something needs to change. And it was uncomfortable and scary, but I’m so glad I did it.

Graeme Cowan: Fantastic. You’ve got a great book called Habits of High Performance, and…

Graeme Cowan: You know, I know you’ve worked with lots of people, from sport, from politics, business, that sort of thing. What, prompted you to decide to do this book?

James Laughlin: Yeah, every year I run a leadership event. It’s called High Performance Leadership, and…

James Laughlin: Every year it would sell out. Second year in, somebody come up and said, James, that’s a book. I says, what’s a book? Over the last couple of days we’ve spent together, you should put it in a book. I said, I’m not a writer, like, I just enjoy meeting people and speaking.

James Laughlin: The next year comes around.

James Laughlin: And another person comes up and goes, you’ve got a book. I was like, oh, someone said that last year. Yeah, but I actually work for a publisher. I was like, oh.

Graeme Cowan: Ho-ho.

James Laughlin: Okay.

James Laughlin: shot.

Graeme Cowan: So…

James Laughlin: Fast forward 3 or 4 months, they convinced me that, James, you can’t get everybody in the world in a room, not everybody can get the time off or afford it. How about you put a book out with all of your understandings, your IP, your frameworks around self-leadership?

James Laughlin: And so, both Penguin and HarperCollins pitched me and proposed, and then in the end, I went with HarperCollins. And for me, it was…

James Laughlin: a really amazing process, but very challenging. To distill all of my thoughts down into a book, and make sure that it’s a tactical and pragmatic book, that was challenging.

James Laughlin: But I’m super proud to have it out there, it’s available globally, and you just… I don’t know, getting… I’m sure you’re the same. You’re an incredible author. Getting a quiet note

James Laughlin: That nobody else will ever read to say, I read your book, and it changed my life. I had a guy, 3 weeks ago, sent my team a message going, you know, this really changed my life. My wife and my kids are so much happier.

James Laughlin: And I said to my team, can I connect with them? And so they wrote back and says, James would like to have a call with you. And he goes, well, James is going to call me, I would love that. So, we jump on Zoom.

James Laughlin: And within about 10 seconds, he’s in tears.

Graeme Cowan: Mmm.

James Laughlin: I said, is everything okay?

James Laughlin: he says, James, I just can’t believe it, like, I’ve read your book twice. It’s literally, in the last 6 months, it’s changed my life. And, like, I felt super emotional just witnessing that. And it was a quiet, private conversation. He told me all about his life before and after, and I thought, I’m glad I put the time in to write that book.

Graeme Cowan: Yeah.

James Laughlin: If it changes one person’s life and that’s it, awesome, job well done.

Graeme Cowan: Yeah, and there is certainly something about that where it goes beyond…

Graeme Cowan: what you know about, you know, when you do your workshops and that type of thing, you see if you’re in the room, but when it goes beyond that, it is really, really special. And, you know, I’ve also been incredibly,

Graeme Cowan: fortunate to get that sort of feedback from people as well. You know, particularly, as you know, I went through some really, really dark times. I was out of work for 5 years, and…

Graeme Cowan: Those, you know, I think if you share your story, it gives people permission to share their story.

Graeme Cowan: And, as you know, people aren’t always forthcoming, telling about the…

Graeme Cowan: the tough parts of their life, you know, people often cover it up, particularly men. Men are very, very poor at sharing vulnerability, but it’s such a powerful thing for building connection with people, and you know.

James Laughlin: Superpower.

Graeme Cowan: It’s… it’s a really lovely thing.

Graeme Cowan: I, as you know, read, we’re called Great Leaders Care, and it’s broken into, sort of, three parts. The first part is the mindset of self-care, you know, building our personal resilience. Crew care, which is about building psychologically safe and resilient teams.

Graeme Cowan: And Red Zone Care, which is about how to identify and support someone that’s struggling. So in that topic of self-care.

Graeme Cowan: How do you keep fuel in your own tank?

James Laughlin: I wasn’t always very good at it, Graham, I’ll be honest with you. It’s, interesting, you know, I talk about high performance. The book’s called Habit of High Performers. When I look back.

James Laughlin: On my life, I was probably a high performer in an area.

James Laughlin: of my life, and that was my career. So, my definition now of high performance is consistently exceeding norms.

James Laughlin: Whilst maintaining healthy relationships and well-being. I sucked at the last bit, Graeme. I really did. So, people would look at me and go, hey, James, you’re a 7-time world champion, 10-time national champion, you’re such a high performer.

James Laughlin: Yeah, you might have been right in my career, but if they could look underneath it all.

James Laughlin: And come behind the scenes, and see that, well, your marriage is failing and ending in divorce, ultimately. You’re drinking way too much booze, you’re eating crap food, you are stressing out, you’re juggling a million balls with your career. It’s the ultimate of non-high performance.

Graeme Cowan: Mmm.

James Laughlin: wasn’t sustainable. So I’ve learned a lot from what not to do, and I’ve spent the last decade studying the highest performers on the planet, whether they’re running countries.

James Laughlin: Formula One teams, small businesses, if they’re busy parents, I’ve been talking to them all. What do you do? And so there’s a few protocols I’ve got. One is called Take Your Meds. Do you mind if I share that with your audience?

Graeme Cowan: Of course, that’d be fantastic. I was going to ask you about that, so…

James Laughlin: Awesome.

James Laughlin: It’s really, really simple. So, think of the acronym MEDS, and I want the listener to do this right now. It’ll take… even if they’re moving, or they’re running, or they’re driving, they can do this in their head. So, MEDS. In the last month, we’re going to rate ourselves 1 to 5.

James Laughlin: 1 being terrible, 5 being awesome. So, mental training, or if you want to call it meditation. In the last month.

James Laughlin: How much of that have you done? What’s the quality of that mental training? Might be breathwork, might be some form of meditation, 1 to 5.

James Laughlin: E. Exercise.

James Laughlin: How much have you moved your body in the last month? 1 to 5.

James Laughlin: D. Diet. And Graham, people are going, James, this is such common sense. I’m like, yes, it is, but it’s not common practice.

Graeme Cowan: What have you been eating?

James Laughlin: And last but not least, the most critical, most important one, S. Sleep.

James Laughlin: What’s your sleep been like over the last month? 1 to 5. And all I ask my clients to do is go, which one’s the lowest out of 5? And just focus on that one for the next month.

James Laughlin: a few simple protocols, and I’ve got lots of protocols in the book that people can do, but there’s lots out there. They could search the net for how can I get better sleep, but focus on one for a month, and try and get it from a… if you were a 1 out of 5, just get it to a 2.

James Laughlin: So I’m about incremental improvement. It’s not about big action and, you know, taking these big swings. Just take small swings often.

Graeme Cowan: And, I remember once reading that getting sleep right is the fastest way to improve overall wellbeing.

Graeme Cowan: But if you also consider other elements of well-being, which is, you know, exercise, they… they’re complementary. If you exercise, you’re more likely to sleep better, so there’s so much overlap, and we found

Graeme Cowan: when I was on your podcast, that, you know, there’s a lot of overlap in what we… what we talked about. You know, I talk about three elements of well-being, which is vitality, and that’s how

Graeme Cowan: Move well, rest well, beat well. I talk about intimacy, building supportive and caring relationships. And then I talk about prosperity, and that’s about our contribution to the outside world. That can be in the form of our career, or it could be, you know, where we

Graeme Cowan: volunteer for a charity, or a school, or a sports team. And, yeah, you know, I also have, like, a self-care scorecard to identify what’s your emptiest cup of well-being, and what’s one little thing, and I think…

Graeme Cowan: That’s the big thing, isn’t it? People think you’ve sort of going to make all these dramatic changes, but all the research around habits from yourself and James Clear and others is that starting small, consistently, is the best way for it to happen.

Graeme Cowan: Can you recall a client that really benefited from that, from you? You know, might have been identifying something they needed to do, and then what was their path in terms of adopting that, and then the end results?

James Laughlin: Great question. I had actually a client from the US, this is maybe about 6 or maybe 7 years ago, and he came to me because he’s an insurance broker and wanted to really nail it, top 10 in the US. He’s super trooper-driven. So that’s initially why he came to work with me. I want to be a high performer in my career. I was like, cool.

James Laughlin: If we work together.

James Laughlin: We’ve got to look at all components of your life. On-field, which is your career stuff, and off-field, we’re going to look at your relationships, your well-being.

James Laughlin: And so we started looking at his career, we got some quick wins on the board, some, you know, make X amount of calls, you know, get into work early, all the simple things, right? But then we looked at the most important part.

James Laughlin: What’s… what’s your life like off-field? Well, he was drastically overweight, was very self-conscious about that.

James Laughlin: It was affecting his energy, affecting his intimacy.

James Laughlin: It was affecting his work. He didn’t have the energy at 2pm. He was knackered, and then he’s taken Red Bull at 2pm to try and get his energy up again. I’m like, dude, let’s just pause.

James Laughlin: How much are you moving your body?

James Laughlin: what do you mean, moving my body? He’s like, I do, you know, 3 or 4 thousand steps a day. I said, great, let’s see if we can add an extra thousand onto that, and then another thousand.

James Laughlin: About a month in, I said, look, I’m your coach, not your friend. And I know these are friendly conversations.

James Laughlin: But I want to challenge you.

James Laughlin: I want you to join F45, or CrossFit in your area, and give it a go.

James Laughlin: For 3 months. Not 2 goes, 3 months, 4 or 5 times a week.

James Laughlin: You up for it? So he started it, and he was hooked about 40 days in, feeling great, lost a bit of weight, more energy, community around him, all doing the same thing.

James Laughlin: I was so proud, about a year and a half ago, he sent me a photo.

James Laughlin: And it was him with all of his F45 buddies, and he’d just done his 1,000th workout, and I was like…

Graeme Cowan: And he looks great.

James Laughlin: 10 years younger, he looks amazing.

James Laughlin: And he is an amazing broker. He’s getting the money on field, he’s got the life off field.

James Laughlin: Awesome.

Graeme Cowan: With, yourself, what are your habits in the morning? How do you start the day?

James Laughlin: Yeah, very simple, so I’m very strict with wake-up time.

James Laughlin: No matter what time I get to bed, so if I’m traveling, like, last night I got in from Fiji, I didn’t get home till 9.30, wasn’t sleeping till 10.30. Very late night for me, usually I’m in bed quarter to 9, and reading, meditating, sleep. So the morning’s always up at that 5.30, 5.45 at the latest.

James Laughlin: get up, not to an alarm on my phone. I get up to a silent buzzer, just on my watch, so no interaction with the phone. The first thing I do, sit up.

James Laughlin: Grab my journal, which always sits beside me, travels with me, and I write what I’m grateful for.

James Laughlin: Very simple, and the neuroscience, of course, we know nowadays just backs this up, that when you practice gratitude, there’s actually a biochemical release that helps you build this resilience well, allows your organs to thrive. So I start with gratitude.

James Laughlin: Then I go, what went well yesterday?

James Laughlin: Well, you know what, what actually went down? So, tomorrow morning, I’ll go. I connected with Graeme Cowan, we had the most awesome chat. That’s what went well yesterday.

James Laughlin: Then I’ll say, what would 1% better look like today?

James Laughlin: If I had to make today 1% better than yesterday… well, you know what? If I’m honest with you, Graeme, so yesterday, I did 5,000 steps, because I woke up in Fiji, got to the airport, sat on a plane, walked to another plane, sat on a plane, sat in a taxi, not good. So this… today, what time is it? It’s 12.30, and I’m at 7,000 steps, so I’m almost…

James Laughlin: You know, pasta, it’s good. So 1% better, there we go. Super simple.

Graeme Cowan: Yeah, I love that, and

Graeme Cowan: Yeah, one thing that I’ve thought, you know, I’ve got two questions I always ask myself at the start of the day, and I meditate at the start of the day as well, but I ask, what good can I do today? And so it’s thinking about, you know, making an impact, having a sense of purpose.

Graeme Cowan: And secondly, if I do one thing that will have the greatest impact, what will that be? And, you know, you often have a million things said, but if you just do one, and work out when and where you’re going to do it.

Graeme Cowan: you know, it makes a big difference, in terms of it happening. And I think I might have shared on your podcast, you know, Peter Kolwitzer from NYU, he found out that if you decide when and where you’re going to do something, it increases the chance of it happening by 300%, threefold!

James Laughlin: Wild.

Graeme Cowan: Yes, it is.

James Laughlin: It’s so true, though. Yeah, the mornings to me are precious. I love mornings. I’ll read in the morning, so I’m reading some Stoicism at the minute, really enjoying that.

James Laughlin: And then move the body.

James Laughlin: I will always alkalize soil water with lemon. I don’t drink coffee anymore, because I’ve figured my body actually doesn’t operate well with it, although a lot of people do, and it helps them. And then it’s time with family. I love, in the morning, chatting with Caroline. It’s still dark outside, sun’s maybe starting to rise.

James Laughlin: Spend time with my son. It’s a 30-minute drive to school, so we have great connection on the way to school. Lots of chats, lots of music, working through all his challenges and all his aspirations. So that, to me, is a successful morning. It’s very simple, it’s not glamorous, but it sets me up for a great day.

Graeme Cowan: Yeah, wonderful.

Graeme Cowan: What about, interpersonal relationships? You know, you mentioned your wife and your son, and obviously that’s your core team, but what about other friends and that type of thing? Do you have anything in place to build, you know, really caring and supportive relationships there?

James Laughlin: Yeah, great question. You know, when I was in my teens and 20s, I was…

James Laughlin: kind of center of all the parties. Center of bringing people together. I hosted a St. Patrick’s Day party here in New Zealand, had marquees and beer kegs, and I was very social.

James Laughlin: Right? And that was my thing, and I had lots of friends, but… very few… Deep friendships.

Graeme Cowan: Hmm.

James Laughlin: And, interestingly, when I parted with my former wife.

James Laughlin: after that, I started realizing, oh.

James Laughlin: Some of these friendships were actually conditional.

Graeme Cowan: Mmm.

James Laughlin: these were conditional on me being with someone specific, and us being a unit, and now that we’re not together, people took sides, and I was like, this is very interesting. So it made me start thinking about friendship a lot, and there were some tough times, and some grieving that I went through, for sure. But then I started realizing, when I get to 80,

James Laughlin: Well, I look back and go, I’m glad I had 35 Friends that were kind of…

James Laughlin: pretty nice, and we were quite close. Or would I rather have 3 amazing mates that we went deep, and we talked about our wounds, and we talked about our challenges, and the things that make us scared? I thought, no, I want that. I want the 3 or 4. So I’ve got a really tight circle, super small circle.

James Laughlin: But we share everything, we’re open. And if we don’t see each other like this, as often as we like, because we’re all busy doing our thing, we’re texting every day, we’re voice noting, there’s quick calls. When we do get together, Graeme, it’s not at the pub.

James Laughlin: For us, it’s in the hills, it’s walking, it’s… you know, that’s joy to me.

Graeme Cowan: It is, and I would have to say that I was never good at that before I had my breakdown. Like, there were lots of friends and contacts, but in terms of being able to share real vulnerability, that was…

Graeme Cowan: really division. And, you know, after I sort of came back from my breakdown, it was building conscious

Graeme Cowan: rituals and habits to meet people. Like, there’s two guys I meet with every Sunday at, Cocoa Beach in Sydney.

Graeme Cowan: We meet there, we walk up to Manley, come back, have breakfast, and it’s, you know, that ritual is fantastic. It’s a lovely environment. It’s killing two birds with one stone. You get a chance to walk, as well as to, you know, have real connection with people. And of course, there’s a lot of, you know, just…

Graeme Cowan: Giving each other a hard time, and taking the piss, and all this sort of stuff.

James Laughlin: Good!

Graeme Cowan: But, but, there’s also been discussions about setback, and family, and kids, and finances. And, you know, there’s an old saying that a problem shared is a problem halved, and it’s so true. And, you know, building that consistency and rituals…

Graeme Cowan: makes a really, really big difference. I’ve got another friend, he’s, Richard, he’s the Chief Purpose Officer of KPMG. You know, we catch up most, Thursday mornings for a walk in the bush, Walmart bush here in Sydney.

Graeme Cowan: And, yeah, you know, just, it doesn’t have to be a lot of people, and the… the evidence is really strong about this. The adult, Harvard Adult Development Study followed 600-odd men for their entire lives, and,

Graeme Cowan: And there was one overwhelming study. Those that had the best life, the longest life, the best sex life, the most affluent life, were those that had caring and supportive relationships around us. And, you know, I truly believe now that the quality of our relationships determines the quality of our life.

James Laughlin: I agree. And if somebody who’s listening specifically from a leadership or business point of view, I also agree with that in the business sphere. The quality of your relationships professionally determines the quality of your profession and the way that you show up, and your results.

Graeme Cowan: Yeah.

Graeme Cowan: And Gallup found that as well, one of their, questions in the Q12, which predicts engagement, discretionary effort, is, I have a best friend at work.

Graeme Cowan: And…

Graeme Cowan: That wording has been tested, I have a good friend, or I have a best friend. Overwhelmingly, the engagement is much higher if they say, I’ve got a best friend at work.

James Laughlin: I bet you could find the same in school kids as well. When they feel like they’ve got a best mate at school, I bet you that their learning and their memory and everything improves.

Graeme Cowan: Absolutely.

Graeme Cowan: The other part about team leadership is psychological safety, you know, which is making it, comfortable for people to be their authentic selves, feel like they’re included, feel like they can make suggestions, and also challenge ideas that don’t agree with it.

Graeme Cowan: When you think about

Graeme Cowan: your life, and also the amazing people that you’ve coached and been, you’ve known. What do they do to create that sort of environment?

James Laughlin: Yeah, it’s interesting, when you say that psychological safety, there’s probably two environments that I think of. One is the professional sporting environment that I work in, and the other is very different, but it’s down in Antarctica, so I work down in Antarctica at Scott Bay, so it’s New Zealand’s base.

James Laughlin: And two very different environments. However, when there’s successful outcomes there, I look at, well, what happened?

James Laughlin: the leaders created psychological safety. And so, there’s a couple of things. If I look at both those leaders that I’ve worked with in those environments, both the leaders were learn-it-alls.

James Laughlin: They were not know-it-alls.

James Laughlin: And so they were very curious, they would ask questions, they would allow others to come to the table with wisdom and take credit, as opposed to always having to run the show. Also, there’s this little simple… it’s called the trick principle, and I often bring this into teams that I’m working with.

James Laughlin: And it was an amazing lady out of Palo Alto primary school called Esther Wojcicki, and she used this to raise her own kids and to raise the school kids. So, trick.

James Laughlin: Trust.

James Laughlin: you’ve got to build trust. If there’s psychological safety that’s going to be had.

James Laughlin: Trust has got to be at the baseline. How do we build trust? We show up. We say… we follow through on what we say we’re going to do. We can support others when they need it.

James Laughlin: R is respect.

James Laughlin: Self-respect and respect for others, their beliefs, their wishes, their skill sets. That I…

James Laughlin: is independence. So once there’s enough trust and respect, people can independently do their work and perform and not be micromanaged.

James Laughlin: The C is collaboration. So not needing to have all the answers and drive everything. When people are trusted and respected and they have independence, then they can collaborate really well. And the K is the most important part.

James Laughlin: It’s the… I was chatting with Richie McCaw, a lot of Australians that are listening will not really like Richie McCaw. He was the former captain of the All Blacks.

Graeme Cowan: Yeah, long… longest serving, I think.

James Laughlin: Yeah, so he’s the… probably the longest-serving captain, he’s 140-something caps, and my friend Sam Whitelock, he got 153 caps, so he just beat him in terms of caps. But,

James Laughlin: I said to Richie, What’s the most important value?

James Laughlin: that you’re trying to instill in your kids. So him and I have children similar age.

James Laughlin: And he says, oh yeah, me and the wife were chatting about this. There’s only one value. And I was thinking to myself, you know, he’s Richie McCall, he’s fierce, he’s a world champion, it’ll be, like, determination, drive, success.

James Laughlin: The K in trick is exactly what he said is kindness.

James Laughlin: Kindness is the one value that we want our kids to leave the house with.

Graeme Cowan: Amazing.

James Laughlin: That’s a simple little principle, that little trick.

Graeme Cowan: principle.

James Laughlin: I’ve seen it work well in, you know, hostile environments like the Antarctic.

James Laughlin: program. I’ve seen it work well in sports teams, where big, burly, gruff folks

James Laughlin: I’ve seen it work really well in the boardroom. Super simple, but for psychological safety, to me, those things have got to be present.

Graeme Cowan: Absolutely.

Graeme Cowan: And I’m sure a lot of Australians would find it hard to believe that Richie McCall’s driving habit was kindness on the field.

James Laughlin: Yeah, true.

Graeme Cowan: Copidy.

James Laughlin: That’s…

Graeme Cowan: Super, super competitive, that’s for sure. And, an amazing, an amazing player.

Graeme Cowan: And for those people that aren’t in Australia or New Zealand, you should know that, rugby is like a religion in New Zealand. It’s the most dominant sport, and the most elite team. You know, teams won the highest win rate of any team in the world, I think, which is extraordinary.

James Laughlin: across all sports?

Graeme Cowan: Yeah, I know, yeah, it’s really, really incredible. So, you know, what else did you learn from Richie McCaw or your other colleagues or friends who worked in rugby about what contributed to that amazing culture that delivered extraordinary results?

James Laughlin: CIA.

James Laughlin: So, this is one thing I’ve heard from the head coaches that led those teams. This is one thing I’ve heard from the players.

James Laughlin: friends that have played deep in those fields. So, CIA. So, first thing is clarity.

James Laughlin: That’s radical clarity. They’re really clear on what the job looked like, what the outcome was supposed to look like, what their, responsibilities were.

James Laughlin: Second was I and CIA intensity.

Graeme Cowan: Hmm.

James Laughlin: When the time comes, you’ve got to have intense focus, intense delivery, and that means being present.

James Laughlin: Like, being super present, not being distracted, your intensity level’s gotta be there. And you’ve also got to learn how to pull your intensity level back. So sometimes they’ve got to be what they call in the red, which is more intense, or back in the blue, which is more calm.

James Laughlin: So when the referee’s calling something out that you don’t like, you get out of the red real quick into the blue, and you talk calmly.

James Laughlin: Same at work. You know, sometimes we do need to be intense, and it does matter, and it’s a critical emergency, and other times, actually, we’re being challenged, or maybe our ego’s being attacked.

James Laughlin: Let’s just take our intensity level down.

James Laughlin: And CIA, the A is accuracy, right? Whatever you’re gonna do, be accurate. Speak clearly, deliver clearly, pass the ball well, whatever…

James Laughlin: Your field is, or industry is.

James Laughlin: Have clarity of what it looks like, know when to be intense and when not, and have accuracy in everything that you deliver. That was one of the big things I took away from almost every conversation with people that played in that specific World Champion team.

Graeme Cowan: Yeah, amazing.

Graeme Cowan: I also interviewed, Alex Liu on my podcast. He was the…

Graeme Cowan: global managing partner for Carney, a management consulting firm, and he had risen from

Graeme Cowan: incredible humble beginnings. Like, his father was born into a peasant family that was literally on a, you know, a rice paddy, and in Taiwan, and then…

Graeme Cowan: His father was the first one educated, and he got to go to the US, and became a professor in the US. So, Alec came from really humble beginnings, but he was a global partner of Kearney for 8 years.

Graeme Cowan: And he had a real quest to…

Graeme Cowan: you know, improve the culture in organizations, and he wrote a book called Joy Works, which is about, you know.

Graeme Cowan: work shouldn’t be… shouldn’t be hard, it should be challenging, but, you know, we should have good fun along the way, which I really love.

Graeme Cowan: But when I asked him about what he’d learned about winning work, winning big assignments, building great teams.

Graeme Cowan: He said it comes down to basically three things, and he said it comes down to competence. You know, the client’s got to feel that you know what you’re doing. It’s got to be just, you know, you’ve got to be able to demonstrate that sort of credibility very, very quickly.

Graeme Cowan: Confidence, which is, you know, you’ll get it, there could be roadblocks, there could be setbacks, but you’ll work out how to do it.

Graeme Cowan: And then he said, which I was delighted to hear, he said, and then there’s a third, and I reckon this determines the most decisions of clients. The third one was care.

Graeme Cowan: The client feels that you care about them, care about their team, care about the organization.

Graeme Cowan: And, you know, let’s… we talk about business and sport, and… and those…

Graeme Cowan: fundamental qualities come through, and I think that is really the foundation of amazing teams.

James Laughlin: You’re absolutely right. I was chatting…

James Laughlin: A long time ago, I was working with Barack Obama’s most senior advisor, and…

James Laughlin: I said, look, when you think about what he’s trying to achieve here as president, you know, how do you do that? How do you get a whole nation behind that? And he said, James, it comes down to… Barack talked about these three questions, and these three questions are being asked by anybody in the country, if you’re running the country, or if you’re in a company.

James Laughlin: Anyone that’s reporting to you are asking these three questions subconsciously. And let’s take it to another level.

James Laughlin: If you’re in a family or in some kind of relationship, the people that are in the relationship with you are also asking these three same questions. So, those questions are…

James Laughlin: Number 1.

James Laughlin: Do you care about me?

James Laughlin: It’s the very first one.

James Laughlin: Secondly, Do you value me?

James Laughlin: And last but not least, are you here to help me succeed?

James Laughlin: Like, will I grow? Will I get better? And Barack Obama said, if you can answer those three through your actions and how you treat others, you will get discretionary effort, you will get buy-in, you will get loyalty, you will get great performance. I would say he’s not wrong. Whether you love him or loathe him as a leader, that’s besides the point.

James Laughlin: I think what he says is just so valuable.

Graeme Cowan: And I think we have to agree that, great leaders care. Yeah.

James Laughlin: They do. 100%. Underline that 10 times.

Graeme Cowan: With regards to the red zone.

Graeme Cowan: You know, where people are off their best game. They’ve had setbacks, and even slipping down the mood-ometer, you know, so they’re anxious, or depressed, or whatever.

Graeme Cowan: What have you found is the best way to address that with a business person, a sportsperson?

Graeme Cowan: To get them back on track.

James Laughlin: Yeah, so look, your perception shapes your reality.

James Laughlin: And so, however you’re looking at the situation, and whatever meaning you are attaching to it, determines how you feel.

James Laughlin: So, we need to remember we are in control of our perception. We can manipulate it, change it through our belief systems. So the first thing for someone who’s depressed, anxious, feeling off, angry, in the red zone.

James Laughlin: is awareness.

James Laughlin: Like, you’ve got to become aware. And often, to become aware, we need to detach.

James Laughlin: So, there’s a really great acronym. My mentor taught me this years ago. It’s called DAPR.

James Laughlin: So, detach. So, that might be take a breath, that could be… that could allow you to detach. It could be leave the room. It could be go for a run, whatever, just detach.

James Laughlin: Next thing is assess. So that’s your heightening your awareness. What’s actually going on? What are the facts? Not my assumptions.

James Laughlin: But what are the facts? Okay, now I’ve got everything in place, and I’ve asked some questions of myself and others.

James Laughlin: Next thing is.

James Laughlin: what’s the priority? What are all the priorities here for me to move forward? Well, I want to go from red to blue. I want to go from anxious to feeling… even just neutral would be quite nice.

James Laughlin: Okay, what’s the plan? That’s the second P. What’s the plan to get there? Then the E, simple, execute. Let’s do something to move there. And R is review. So detach, assess, prioritize, plan.

James Laughlin: execute it, and review. So if someone’s sitting there going, James, I actually feel like crap, what do I do? Well, acknowledge.

James Laughlin: That you’re feeling that way. Don’t try and push it down, don’t try and say that it’s wrong. These feelings are trying to tell us something.

James Laughlin: So embrace it, make space for the feeling to sit there, and then ask yourself, what’s the next best feeling I could move towards? So, let’s say you’re depressed on one end of the spectrum.

James Laughlin: And elated is on the other end of the spectrum.

James Laughlin: To go from depressed to elated is delusional, I think. But if you want to say, I want to go from depressed

James Laughlin: to sad.

Graeme Cowan: Awesome.

James Laughlin: We’re moving up the scale a little bit.

James Laughlin: What’s one thing I could do to move from this depression to sadness? Well, you know what? I’ve been sitting down with my head slumped forward for the last 20 minutes. I’m just gonna go up and go for a 5-minute walk.

James Laughlin: That might take you from feeling depressed to going, I’m still not great.

James Laughlin: But I’m not as bad as I was 5 minutes ago. So it’s about taking ownership and shifting that perception.

Graeme Cowan: Yeah, yeah. I love that, you know, it’s a way of thinking about

Graeme Cowan: what to do when you’re in that situation. And often it takes…

Graeme Cowan: a coach or a mentor to help make that happen, and, you know, I was involved in starting RU OK? and…

Graeme Cowan: That was what we sought to do there, is to have people

Graeme Cowan: feel heard, but also to really encourage to take one step to help them, whether it’s going to a doctor or calling Lifeline or whatever.

Graeme Cowan: Because, you know, I spent a long time in the red zone, and it’s bloody hard to get out of there. You know, it’s…

Graeme Cowan: It’s much, much easier to stay in the green zone than it is to get out of the red zone.

Graeme Cowan: And, you know, I think ultimately,

Graeme Cowan: I gave a keynote yesterday for a group called the Women’s Resilience Center, you know, women that are experiencing domestic and family violence.

Graeme Cowan: And they have a theme that recovery is prevention.

Graeme Cowan: And I really like that, because they… on the way, they learn things that can help them boost their mood, boost their independence financially, and…

Graeme Cowan: Job-wise, etc. But then those same habits then prevent things happening in the future. And that was my experience as well, in terms of coming from severe depression, and then adopting the, you know, the VIP, the Vitality, Intimacy, prosperity.

Graeme Cowan: But, you know, just make it…

Graeme Cowan: realistic, you know, make it a little bit outside your comfort zone, but you won’t change everything overnight. Just go a little bit outside your comfort zone, and that’s where growth and progress happens.

James Laughlin: You’re spot on. I mean, I’ve only ever grown when I’ve been uncomfortable. You know, and it could be the simplest things. For example, I couldn’t swim. I had something happen to me as a kid, I hated the water.

James Laughlin: 31 years of age at the time, my little boy is about 9 months old, and I thought, what if something happens to him? I can’t do a thing. So…

James Laughlin: I need to get swim lessons. Now, I’m a 31-year-old, and I’m quite, you know, self-conscious about going into a swimming pool and getting lessons. So I get a swimming pool as far away from the city as I could find. It was out in the countryside, it was a private, like, swimming school.

James Laughlin: And I rock up for my first lesson. I am so anxious, I’m a nervous wreck, but I know.

James Laughlin: I’ve got to get into my uncomfort-discomfort zone to actually grow. So I walk in, I’m like, nobody’s gonna know me out here. I walk in, and there’s about 30 mums with buggies, all watching their 4-year-olds getting swim lessons, and there’s me going in, getting my lesson. I was so mortified.

James Laughlin: Horrible, Graham.

James Laughlin: Five weeks passed.

Graeme Cowan: And I.

James Laughlin: I floated, and then I treaded water, and then I started swimming. I was like.

James Laughlin: This was worth all of that cringey.

James Laughlin: stuff that I was going through. So I think for someone right now that’s listening, pick the thing that scares you, that you’re fearful of, whether it’s public speaking.

James Laughlin: for me was swimming. Pick something in your personal life.

James Laughlin: And just go and give it a crack. Give it a…

James Laughlin: Couple of months of effort, and if you can overcome that, you start to take that courage and apply it to your other parts of your career and life.

Graeme Cowan: Yeah, yeah, fantastic.

Graeme Cowan: Now, time’s really flown, James, I can’t believe that. As we found on your podcast, there’s a lot we’ve got in common in terms of, beliefs and research and insights.

James Laughlin: Like I said.

Graeme Cowan: not surprising.

James Laughlin: I love your work.

Graeme Cowan: Vice versa.

Graeme Cowan: So, One question I always finish with is.

Graeme Cowan: What do you… what would you tell your 20-year-old self? Knowing what you know now.

Graeme Cowan: And the pain, the elation, everything been through.

Graeme Cowan: What advice would you give your 20-year-old self?

James Laughlin: Yep.

James Laughlin: Okay, be more patient.

James Laughlin: I was in a hurry to win things, to be the world champion, to try and get rich, to read books at lightning speed.

James Laughlin: Yeah, so be patient.

James Laughlin: Be kind, You know, and I look back at 20-year-old James, and he wasn’t that kind himself.

James Laughlin: And, at times, wasn’t kind to others.

James Laughlin: And, believe in yourself. Believe that it is possible. Believe that the things that you think are outside of your reach, that, hey, it’s actually possible to achieve that, and…

James Laughlin: For me, I’ve seen people again and again reach the most incredible heights, on field and off-field, by really believing in themselves and writing down, I believe I can, I believe I will.

James Laughlin: Get out of your head onto the page, start rewiring your beliefs. So, yeah, I’d give him a hug, tell him, slow down, be kind, be patient, and believe in yourself.

Graeme Cowan: Yeah, I love that.

Graeme Cowan: Be kind, believe in yourself. That’s a great way to, approach life.

Graeme Cowan: Thanks for being part of the Caring CEO, James. It’s been lovely to talk to you.

James Laughlin: Thank you so much, it’s been a pleasure.

Oh, you are inquisitive… getting all the way to the bottom of the page!

Thanks for listening 🙂

From all of us at The Caring CEO, and the WeCARE team, keep listening, keep caring and lead with your heart.

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