#74 Purposeful Life, Richard Boele, Chief Purpose Officer, KPMG
DISCUSSED IN THIS EPISODE
- What caring in the workplace means for Richard.
- Having a strong sense of purpose.
- Aligning personal, team, and organisational purpose.
- Richard’s purpose and the meaning he brings to his organisation.
RESOURCES
Transcript from the interview
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SPEAKERS
Graeme Cowan, Richard Boele
Graeme Cowan 00:02
Today’s guest is Richard Boele, who is the Chief Purpose Officer of KPMG. Full disclosure, Richard’s also a good mate of mine. He has a very, very interesting story, starting back when he was 21 when he found himself in Tibet and there was a brutal crackdown by China. This experience led to him devoting his career to human rights and providing a voice for the voiceless. He worked in a number of roles in Europe, before taking on the role as human rights manager for Anita roddicks, The Body Shop. He has so many interesting reflections on that period, He then returned to Australia and started benara Consulting. And over a period of years, he built that business until it was acquired by KPMG. He helped the organization build the practice in Australia and in other countries. Before in November 2021 he was offered the role of chief purpose officer by the CEO, Andrew Yates. Rich and his wife also endured an incredible personal tragedy when they lost two sons to a genetic illness. He explains why having a sense of purpose helped in that most shocking of situations, rich and his team gradually built up a plan to build this purpose across the whole organization, and you’ll hear the energy in his voice when he describes the last two purpose weeks where he’s gone to several offices and encouraged Any employee who is interested to uncover their personal purpose. He also explains the huge advantage in linking personal purpose to Team purpose to organizational purpose. There is a huge amount to learn from Richard and joy. It’s a real pleasure to welcome Richard Boele to the caring CEO. Welcome Richard.
Richard Boele 01:57
Ah, thank you. Great to be here. Graeme,
Graeme Cowan 02:00
Richard, what does care in the workplace mean to you?
Richard Boele 02:03
Oh, we’re going to start off with a simple question, right? I think it can mean many things, but ultimately, I think it means seeing everyone in the workplace as a human being, you know, what do they need to be okay? You know? What do they need to feel like they belong? What do they need to be able to have the energy to do the work that you need them to do? So I think if you have people as the center of answering that question, then you’re well, on the way, yeah, because it genuinely is around. We’re human beings. We have basic human needs. We can’t divorce those from ourselves the moment we walk in the door at work, you know, we still have those needs. So we need bosses, we need colleagues, and we even need people who work for us that I think can recognize that and can respond to those needs and in appropriate ways. So fundamentally, it’s having compassion, even having love, you know, to be able to love others as fellow human beings, I think is a really important thing to be able to bring to the most of work. And if you can do that,
Graeme Cowan 03:18
and I think that’s what I’ve aimed to do, that’s what care in the workplace means for me. I love that, that you put it all back to us as humans and how we relate as humans, how we feel that we belong or don’t belong, how we feel heard. And I know just through we should disclose to our listeners that this isn’t the first time we’ve spoken. Maybe not. We should thank Katie McMurray, who introduced us at a seminar probably about 12 years ago, I think something like that. And we’ve had lots and lots of walks in that time. We’ve shared lots of things good and bad that have happened to us during that time. But I love that. Just bring it back to, you know, the human need for connection. I know that you’ve had a really fascinating career. You grew up on north shore of Sydney, and you know, a really as you know the North is, it’s quite a privileged area, but you chose a really interesting direction for your career, which by just telling the listeners a little bit about some of those early adventures.
Richard Boele 04:23
I love the way you use the word choice. I don’t know. I don’t see my career as having been much choice. It’s just sort of these crossroads have presented themselves. And to me, I guess the choice has been around which, which path do I take? As those crossroads have emerged and look, I mean, but I guess some might say and challenge that and go, Well, you know you you behave in a way you’ve made choices leading to those crossroads that have meant that those crossroads then emerge. And certainly for me, one of the key things I did that perhaps led me to that first crossroad was I went backpacking through China and. Back in 1987 that was the first of October. 1987 found myself in Lhasa, the capital of Tibet and there was an uprising. And the short version of it, because I’ll stick to the short version of everything I experienced that day was I had, as a 21 year old, just out of university, a Tibetan man shot and killed next to me, and I remember a young Tibetan man, a young boy, taking me to his father’s place to safety. Yeah, because clearly this was not a safe place to be. And I’ll never forget this older Tibetan man saying to me, Look, I’m Tibetan, and I can’t leave my country now, but you can leave my country. Please go home and tell your people what the Chinese security forces and the China government are doing to my people. And I think that there was a couple of things. There is, just as you said, that extraordinary sense, that realization in that moment about what privilege actually means. It was quite mind blowing to think you mean, you can’t leave your own country if you don’t have that freedom to be able to go outside those borders. And, you know, look, a big part of that was just my naivety of that point, too. But it really hit me hard, and I think it kind of, you know, it really did shape a significant part of who I am today and who I’ve been in that career. And at that point, I’d had this dream to be a screenwriter. I’d done what you do, and worked at the ABC in film archives, you know, very diligently for many months, finally got that job to go down and be a story boy, as we called it back then, in the story department, GP, which was a socially responsible so at the ABC. Anyway, fast forward to, how long was I there? For two and a half years into that role, and I’d kind of worked my way up, you know, was now a trainee e editor. You know, the next step was to be an editor, and then the step after that was to be the screenwriter. So you you genuinely had to kind of work your work your way up and pay your dues. And the producer, I went in to have a chat with him, and I said, Look, Brett, Bruce, I’ve had this opportunity the Dalai Lama. He’s holding us the Dalai Lama coming to Australia. And I’ve been asked if I could do his, if I could do his PR for his national tour, that I need a few months having two or three months off. And I remember Bruce said, Richard time, you made a choice, either you go and do this human rights stuff, this Tibet stuff, or you’re serious about being a screenwriter. You know, he said, you’ve got your first script as trainee. Training script editor said, I see a bright career for you, and you will be a screen rather. And it was genuinely in that moment that he made me choose, you know, I was like, Oh, okay. And in the end, you know, it wasn’t a choice. You know that my my sense of purpose, I guess, at that point in my life really, really drove me to kind of go, No, this is an opportunity work that he’s holding us to Dalai Lama. I’m never going to do that. And if I can get back to screenwriting, I’ll try and do that. But I never did so I never made that that way, back, if you like, into screenwriting. But rather, that set me on a path where it genuinely was about creating platforms, giving you know, and ensuring those who aren’t normally heard are heard in wherever, you know, in whichever sort of, I guess, corporate position I’ve been taken. But for that, for me, that was then going off to an international human rights organization after they’ve been doing that extraordinary, you know, it was just the most extraordinary thing to be able to do was work with His Holiness, and work with His Holiness closely, and just an extraordinary human and then was in the Netherlands. It was an organization co founded by the Tibetan government in exile. And I’d been asked to go to Garam sale in India and and six months I volunteered. So look, I’ll come and teach you all that communications and how to do PR. So I was going to go off and do six months of that in India and and found myself in the Netherlands, and this organization, co founded by them, called me unrepresented nations and people’s organization. I organized the PR for their third General Assembly, which ended up being on CNN, you know, Time Magazine, News, News Week. You know, coverage was extraordinary. My view was, it was a story whose time has really been told. This was back in 1903 and they asked me they wanted to stay. And they said, Look, could you take on Head of Communications role and not go to India, not go to the Tibetan government exile? And I said, Well, that’s up to the Tibetan government exile. And chose, and told me to stay in the Netherlands with UNPO. So I guess there’s two choices. There’s two of those crossroads for you right into sort of, I think key moments have been shaped many of those crossroads that came later in my career. Yeah,
Graeme Cowan 09:48
and then, as I understand it, you spent some time at the body shop and with the Anita Roddick, who is the founder. Then there’s your role. There you.
Richard Boele 09:59
Oh, look, she funded my last year in my role at UMPI. And because of that, I was known to the body shop. And with 1995 there was Ken Saro Wila and eight other, again, people in Nigeria who were about to be executed by the Nigerian and what was then no treated table ship and the body shop asked me to run a campaign to stop the execution, and that was during the Commonwealth Heads of Government meeting in Auckland, in New Zealand. And I said, Wes to go and do that. Ran that campaign with Ken. So we were son, Ken, where you were? And yeah, we met the number of heads government. We met in those few days before November the 10th, 1995 now we were ultimately unsuccessful, and his father and eight others were executed by that military dictatorship. And as a result of that work that I did at that point for no pay, you know, I just did that because I felt the issue was really important, the body shot pocket me a job as this human rights campaigns manager in Global Corporate affairs, and that’s where I found myself in December 1995 I just still remember having trouble to get getting down to Brighton because of snowdrifts. And I just thought, what I’ve done crew a job where getting to work is a problem in snowdress. Anyway, I don’t think snowdress is that big an issue anymore in the south of the UK or South of England, but it certainly was in 1995 and that led to, you know, five years of working in that public affairs role for the body shop International. And I did everything from writing speeches for Anita Roddick, and I can still remember the first speech I got back, which was only a page long, you know, it wasn’t the long one. I don’t think it was a single word left that was all red. And I was very pleased to say after about it genuinely took me about a year, I think, but after about a year, I could get there and write a speech that at least it didn’t come back all in red. I mean, not that she followed it when she got up to speak. I mean, she really followed, but prepared speeches when she spoke. Anyway, she was such a fantastic off the cuff orator anyway, but we that was from doing speeches to running global campaigns. In 1998 you know, I had the privilege to lead the partnership with Amnesty International and ran a campaign on human rights defenders across the body shop stores in 36 countries, which is just the most extraordinary platform to think about it for, yeah, for positive impact. And really proud of that work, because, you know, a number of those people that we can’t campaign for was subsequently free, you know, and to me, that’s, you know, that’s what that’s the that’s an extraordinary way to have positive power business be used.
Graeme Cowan 12:42
That must have been the first position of its climbed. I’m sure there weren’t many other roles specifically around human rights, working for companies.
Richard Boele 12:52
Yeah, I think it might have been. I’m always wary of sort of saying it was the first, but it sort of sort of would have been one of the first. You know, we were very much the body shop and Ben and Jerry’s. I think we’re very much in sort of parallel in terms of pushing boundaries around responsible business. And they had a lot of focus on supply chains, as as we did with my role involved also looking at policy settings and complaints around what was going to know in our supply chains. So was it the first? I don’t know if was it for one of those? I think pretty close, you know, and I seem to have managed one of the first roles, or one of the first in in a number of those decisions that I’ve made in my crossroads and similar to my career years,
Graeme Cowan 13:38
and what leads you to then leave that role and come back to Australia, it was
Richard Boele 13:46
entirely clear I did leave the body shop after five and a half years, and then started in consulting, and did that with a number of ex Body Shop people. So that sort of sort of thing about my career. When I was doing the human rights work, I was running global campaigns against companies that are now, you know, major clients of where I’ve ended up. And then I spend this time in the business. So, you know, work against business, work in business, and then work with business as a consultant from when I left the body shop. And actually the primary reason we came back to Australia was because we had a six month old. And we just decided, of all the places, you know hiker and I, you know hiker, I met in Brussels and Belgium. She’s from Belgium, from Flanders. And we just decided that, you know, bringing up kids in Australia there was one of the best places in the world you could do it. So moved back to Australia in 2001 actually, you’ve moved back, bizarrely with work. So when you’re a self employed consultant, that’s pretty amazing be able to do that. But I came back to do the social auditor for Normandy gold mining company’s five star assessment program. So some people might remember. Into the name Robert crippling, but he made his he made his money by being, you know, one of the first accountants to take control of mining companies, and he did that with Normandy, and grew it, and did a spectacular job of growing it, and furiously, genuinely brought in innovations around accountability that have gone on to actually shape the industry. So I don’t know there’s something perhaps conceptually there around what accountants do, what accountants give support to, you know, key staff to do in terms of accountability, around performance, in terms of safety, environment, and for me, the community relations that was, yeah, it was exciting work to do, and it was very exciting to come back to Australia, young family and have a job in the bag, involved in traveling the world. Actually, that was a privilege. That was a privilege to be able to go around the world and spend a week in a mine site and kick the tires around. How are they managing and how they’re governing human relations. And it then
Graeme Cowan 15:59
took How long before you then start a benara,
Richard Boele 16:03
well, that was, I didn’t have the name, effectively, that was what I was doing. Yeah, that was the start of it. And I think, yeah, the next client, the next sort of iconic client, was Westpac and becoming the auditor of their first sustainability report and smashed tomatoes report that was 2002 and when did the name denara look back through quite quickly, that job, that Westpac job, and there was a moment there, I think 2004 it was I was just like all these subcontractors who are helping me do this big job. Am I really capturing as if some value here beyond just what I’m doing, you know, earning for myself. And I went through that whole kind of challenging myself and thinking around, what do I What do I do with this? And that’s when I decided I would set up my own business. And rather than being a self employed person who had a whole bunch of subcontractors who then I passed through work, I decided to set up Dinara and start employing people, yeah, and that was, I think 2004 five might have been 5/5,
Graeme Cowan 17:08
and I guess that was quite a risk, you know, because I know when I started business and have people full time, there’s even ebbs and flows business. Did you ever think that wasn’t the right strategy at one stage? Oh,
Richard Boele 17:19
yeah. Like, yeah, I don’t know. Sometimes I kind of, I wonder why I made it waited so difficult for myself, because, you know, I could have easily just taken our role in the larger organization and set up a similar business within a different within a context that isn’t quite so challenging, you know, because the buck stops with you on when you’re a small business owner. I don’t know. Maybe it was something like, I really, you know, my father’s always done that and set up his own businesses. So maybe there was, at some level, I was looking for approval or following that footpath. In retrospect, I think it was because I remember what it was. It was because I had a series of such poor bosses, I decided that’s it. I’m now going to be my own boss. And I wanted to be an example for others. I wanted to give others, and, you know, an example of what a good boss could be, yeah. And I genuinely thinking that now that was the primary reason I was just so done with having and that’s not they were bad, they’re just mediocre, you know, inspiring or managing in ways you go. How do you think that’s going to motivate me? You know, I’m not motivated by those things. You know, you might be, but I’m not, yeah, and it being, you know, from my screenwriting days, you know, working at roadshow coot and Carol where yes, just Yeah, I learned a lot. I have to say, my business leadership skills, probably for those first 1012, years, were all entirely lessons in what not to do, which she kind of gave that’s a long time, isn’t it, to kind of be taught by what not to do. And I just got fed up, and I just like enough let me have a gap. And is it really that hard? Sure, fully, it’s not better. And it turns out, it wasn’t how many times it went. Just regretted the way that I chose to do it. Certainly 2002 1014, I was one of those right to make growing the business to 20 people, it had done really well for a good, a good sort of, what was that? Mary Ann, how many years of it there? That was, if he thinks 2001 and, you know, gone had gone really well for many years. And then we got to 2013 or 14, and there was downturn in the commodity market. We were very exposed to mining. I’d always thought I’d manage that by exposing that our business to gold. Because, you know, when things are tough and commodities, gold always goes up, right? Like it’s like it is at the margin. You know, gold is very healthy at the moment, while it. Such uncertainty in the world, and certainly uncertainty in capital markets. But that year, it didn’t that year, gold went down with market, and that resulted in a really significant drop off in business, and I had to make people redundant. And without a doubt, yeah, I think in all of my time leading business, that’s the hardest thing I’ve ever had to do. Yeah, yeah.
Graeme Cowan 20:26
Did you see how? Sorry. How have you seen things change in the Human Rights consulting in the time you’ve been in it now in Australia in particular,
Richard Boele 20:39
oh, huge changes. You know, early days. A huge part of what we did was educate, yeah. So we had to educate the clients that this was, these were the reasons that they needed, the advice that we were offering. And I think the the UN did some really significant work in terms of getting Professor John Rudy to articulate the Ruggie principles, the UN guiding principles on business and human rights. And when they came out, while they were voluntary standards, they effectively became de facto, if you’re a responsible business or a major business, you had to have a response 30 year end, guiding principles. And that was a real game changer, I don’t And then the second wave, if you like, here, particularly in Australia, has been around modern slavery. So the yeah, having federal and state based legislation around making sure your business isn’t causing harm by having slavery practices in your business or your supply chain or associated with your business, that’s also then a real game changer. So I think to me, if I look back at my sort of over 20 years, almost 30 years in terms of business and human rights, the landscape now is unrecognizable. I mean, when I started, you know, we learned on the job, there was no university courses, let alone down to do a degree. And now you can, you know, can do courses and can actually major in business in England. So the, what does that mean? You know, fundamentally, that’s business being really, I guess, really committed to not causing harm in the way that it operates. Yeah, yeah. Some might kind of go, ah, Kim, right. And business, you know, right, that’s just sort of another work commitment. And I really seriously argue, no, it’s not. It’s not, it’s genuinely not. Managing risk is one of the key enablers of business capital markets. Your investors want to know that you’re managing risk. The more sophisticated that you are in managing risk, I think the higher the quality of management is and governance in an organization, sort of firmly believe that, and that goes from harm and, you know, can psychosocial calm, you know, if we talk about wellbeing and those sort of areas, or it can be you’ve got, you know, you’ve got slave labor in your supply chain. And so it can be practices, in terms of hours, in terms of expectation, of how you’re managing people, when you’re causing psychosocial harm at work, within those who are in your direct control, or it can be those that you have influence over in your supply chain. Yeah, where people can be, you can have children. You can have people who are bonded through debt or through being prison labeling. And we have, you know, some of the world’s most significant economic bodies. You know, one of the most significant ones is the prison system in China. It is an enormous economic actor in the Chinese economy. Its contribution is significant. You know, prisoners, through their labor, paid for that system, and that therefore, the system is entirely motivated to be as efficient and as engaged with the overall economic system in China that it can be it needs to supply goods and goods and services to just survive. You know, just be able to operate. And therefore, you know, when you start looking, it can be surprisingly close, how the how close prison supplied goods and labor can be to a regular supply chains in place like Sean, yeah,
Graeme Cowan 24:04
yeah. And then you know, you had the opportunity or about joining KPMG, what led to you saying, Yes, this is a good idea. Well, you
Richard Boele 24:19
the great question. I just gotta have to unpack that a little bit. I was on the board. I’ll tell a little bit of a story. And look, I was on the board of the year end global compact so those, those 10 Principles that businesses commit to under the auspices of new end in terms of being responsible to businesses. And I was on the year end global compact network Australia with one of the apmg partners, and I remember I was having the redundancies, and she sort of sat me over shoulder and said, Richard, I think you’ve got a great business. I know you’re having a tough time at the moment. I’d have a chat with my CEO and with my chair, and we think. Think there, you know, it had been great if you consider joining KPMG. So it was really funny, because KPMG were doing the valuations on the sale because they I didn’t took the next step. Curiously, I went through all the business owners should be only trying to test the market and talk to the others and sort of see what, who else might be interested in buying your business. But at the end of the day, it was really on the KP and G to repair to buy the business in the team. So, you know, because I downsized the team, I think at that point was 12 people, and what I was really keen to do was make sure that they were looked after. If they were going to choose to come with me, I wanted them to be looked after in the way that I would have looked after them, as though they were still working just for me. And KPMG understood that, and they respected that in terms of the acquisition process. And look, I turned the business around. And I had many moments where I just thought, What am I doing? This is all too hard, particularly a big boost like KPMG. Think about how boutique I was, you know, 12 people. But they were particularly keen because I did have the West packs. By that point, Newmont, you know, we only had blue chip clients really, because we were doing really good tick work, and which is successful boutiques generally can do it began to Cowan clients because of the services, the services they’re offering are so to be medical specialized, and we’d successfully got into that position. And I can still remember, it was the first of August 2015. Was the completion date, and I was there were moments there where I just thought that it’s too hard. They’re asking too much. This isn’t going to work culturally. But I stuck at it. And then, on the Sunday before that completion date, my oldest almost died. So our 2322, of our three kids were born with significant disabilities, and Chi had ended up that weekend, yeah, at West new children, the emergency of his of his medical team said, Look, if he got here 10 minutes later, I don’t think we I don’t think we’d be yet, he’d be alive. So that was quite a moment. I remember Monday morning at the partner from KPMG just said, oh my goodness, Richard, look, this is the most important thing. Just let’s put this off your postpone it on Friday. You know, let’s just give you the time and the space you need to focus on most important thing to answer your question, it is all answered in my response to his offer, which was no, this is taken. Think, by that point, we’ve been going for about nine or 10 months, right the process of being going, and I was just absolutely exhausted by it was almost killing the business. And I said, No, there’s nothing more important than my decision to sell to KPM to create space and comfort in my mind so that I can actually give more attention and more bandwidth to you know what’s going on at home, but you can’t really challenge them to do that when you’re a business owner, but if you share that with others, which was the whole idea of moving do I was looking forward to having support around the challenges that come with that individual. To me, that was just the when he made that offer, and I just said, No, let’s just go through with it. There’s nothing more important than getting the sale done, because that’s taken being the business owner. That’s just taking more time than I won’t do it, and I’d much rather be just part of KPMG, so we went ahead. Yeah, we went ahead on that Friday afternoon and Monday morning, I turned up at my new job at KPMG,
Graeme Cowan 28:43
we have some helpful resources that you can find at WeCARE 360, five.com.au, the first is our mental ill health calculator, which is a quick and simple way to work out what poor mental health costs your organization in lost productivity and employee turnover. You will also find our building a mentally healthy culture checklist, which shows how to launch a great initiative and keep that momentum going. These resources can be found at, we care. 360, five.com.au, it’s impossible not to race past what you mentioned about losing your son, Kai, and fast forward, and I know that you’ve also lost your second son, Bodhi, both before they became 20 like that’s extraordinary for anyone, any parent, I think, to even contemplate, how did you and your wife get through that?
Richard Boele 29:51
Well, I think getting you don’t get through it. We were just reflecting it on it yesterday. It’s almost like, you know, grief is this movie or just keeps playing. In the back of your mind. It’s not just in your mind. I mean, it’s absolutely in your heart. And I think energetically as well. You know, it’s what I’ve particularly noticed since, since baby died last year, is my energy reserves. I just don’t have the energy that I used to have, particularly for work. I don’t think you get through it. I think what you do is you make sense of it, and you use you genuinely go, I’m going to use this unexpected season of my life to be paid back, you know, to or to, you know, to have this positive impact for others as possible. Because both Kai and they, you know, Kai is the six month old that we brought over from the UK, and probably that eight about a year later, after that’s from when he was 18 months old, we realized what was, what was then probably going to be the rest of our lives with him into significant physical needs, and also, in his case, also bipolar. So you know, some really complex mental health issues as well and the body. When he was unexpectedly born, because he was our he was our third surprise child, hardly planned, but he had the same genetic issue that Kai deals, right? So we had been from 2006 we had two and it’s fair to say that our lives were fully absorbed by their needs, and supporting them in the is was absolute godsend, I have to say. And despite his challenges, yes, it has its challenge and difficulties, but certainly hugely, hugely helpful. And when Kai died, we didn’t have too much time to really kind of think it through, or to like, yes, we didn’t, because it was just straight to all Bodhi needed. And of course, we had a third son, Yasha is in the middle, neurotypical, but he had still had his needs as well. And I think with Bodhi being there, that was, in some ways, that was just we need to be busy. It wasn’t that we were making ourselves busy. We weren’t busy. And that didn’t give as much time, perhaps, as if we’ve had since May last year. So when bony died last year, that was an over change. That was a complete transformation. You know, after 20 when I say 18 months. So if you think Kai was born 2020 22 Yeah, it would genuinely some over, just over 20 years of for me, you know to be I’d get home on a Friday afternoon, and then I’d tweak in the support mode, right? Because I grew been doing that primary role from Monday to Friday, yeah, and then I would do that, you know, that would be my full time job during the night as well, until Monday morning that I went to work. So for me, it was always going to work on pumping. Was going to recharge the relax, you know, that, Oh, take a breath. And that was always, you know, the other way around for hiker, in terms of, you know, she’d had that opportunity on the weekends, and I’d have to say, though there was less opportunity for her to do like because she would be around, whereas I would just have to go to work and I would be, I would create, you know, they would create a clear distance between us and her role as the primary carer. And that changed overnight, literally overnight. You know, Bodhi wanted to die home. We honored that wish agent as well, but his effort was relatively fast. Bodies was much more prolonged. And I think the although, ironically, you know, Kaiser was much more traumatic because of lack of palliative care that we had was bogeys. We had the most excellent colors compared, they were very different experiences. I have to say, for me, personally, the change in my life from the day after birdie died, it was so the melody, because you go from not having to think about, what do I do with my spare time? Because I had no green space, I had no speaker time other than the time I booked in the mail, just suddenly going, she Yeah, and we still catch ourselves right here’s, oh, I’ve got to go do this for baby, even a year later, because you’re so in your routine. Because, you know, both of them were so significant. You know, everything was, you know, particularly personal care, all that, all that needed our name of intervention to make stuff happen. You know, whether it’s cathetering or whatever it might be, all of that. You know, the sort of medical procedures that we have to learn as parents in private care is real, quite significant, and you don’t have to do that again. So it was a really big change. And through that, I found a particularly, a real question around, I mean, really, yeah, that’s cape. And so I get that to Cape in June, until I go back to, what was that? I mean, is that really what, what my meaning in life comes from? And it was a genuine because I had seven months off, and I. Has to say how grateful I am, you know, to Andrew, you know, I report to the CEO as a child purpose officer, and he was just so supportive, as was everyone else at KPMG and, and I remember him kind of going when I said, Look, I think I’ll come back first in October. And that was seven months, right? And that’s a long time, right? And I just said to look, I think I need that time, because I can’t do the role that the business needs me to do without coming back with 110%
Graeme Cowan 35:30
Yeah, what we’ve sort of breezed over as well through the very, very, you know, tragic circumstances of losing your son is, you know you’re being promoted into the chief purpose officer, and the role that’s played for yourself. And I know that purpose has always been very important to you. I know you spent a lot of time thinking about it. A lot of time now encouraging other people in KPMG, to think about the thing, how to apply it. How did having that sense of purpose assist you during those incredibly challenging few years where you lost two sons?
Richard Boele 36:15
Yes, I wouldn’t have gone back to KPMG, I think I would be struggling a lot more if I did that clear sense of purpose. And you know, I think that was the case through Kai. It wasn’t just dead, yes, but I think it was the Yeah. As a parent, you’ll do anything for your children, no matter what they mean, right? And there’s no question when I reflect that, though. Is that, you know, both our kids, they required a lot, yeah, a real lot. And in many ways, I was able to frame that as me, within my purpose, right? There’s a way that we also, hiker and I became key advocates then for the MDI list, right? Because not many parents who have, you know, two children with really complex legal needs, so like significant disabilities that require, you know, from the moment they wake up, or even when they’re not awake, you know, require your attention and your time, then have the time to go in there, okay? And that was part of for me, moving, you know, that strong sense of my purpose around giving voice, you know, giving voice to those who aren’t otherwise who or and ensuring all voices of her. And it really allowed me to reframe some really tough times, and I think some really dark times, yeah, is it you also just kind of reflect on, you know, Oh, you do you? You have those moments where you go, what would my career have been like otherwise, if I hadn’t have had, if I’d had, you know, three, three kids that are not, you know, just that difference, if you only do that for a moment. I have to be honest with you, man, because it’s not really as it is, and what can I do now? Is a more challenging question, and it certainly was a really key part of me making that decision to come back to co PNG, you know, because that I’ve spent a lot of time, as you say, reflecting on my purpose. Yeah, we’ve got some, I’ve got some firm beliefs to that, you know, and what we do in the purpose practice at KPMG, but you know, the purpose is written in the past. To you can’t help being and for me, you know, I am that extrovert. I love being up in front of, you know, people and to create moments of magic, you know, where all voices are heard. Which is my purpose KPMG gives me, but it gives me a platform to do that, to live my purpose, like, like pretty much nowhere else could at the moment. And I think that’s been a really part, important part of the healing process for me, or even just the sort of sense making process for me, being able to come back to work and being busy at work. And the last you know, this year has just been amazing as we delivered purpose weeks. And you know, which is central to our purpose program, and as you say, is being able to bring the power of purpose an individual level, at a team level, at a firm level, to, you know, nine, over 9000 people like coping. It’s so much energy buck from it. It’s just, yeah, it is exactly what I mean. In fact, I said to Andrew last week, I said, been your 10 years, and those two first purpose weeks, Melbourne and Canberra, I said, I think they’re the most impactful weeks I have heard in my 10 years at COVID.
Graeme Cowan 39:38
Wow. And what was it that happened in those two weeks that you saw that you were influencing people resonating with it. What was it that made it so special? Do you think it’s
Richard Boele 39:50
really simple energy, genuinely energy, to see people come into a session, even a 10 minute session, which is a bit of fun, filling a card around. Does purpose mean to me? That was the word. Purpose mean to me. We’re pulling most people in because they’re free food. Unfortunately, yep, that’s the case, still. Whereas you bribe people with a bit of food, you know, just see the smile on their faces, yeah, when they’re filling in the answer to that question. Or we’ve now developed, last couple of years, we’ve developed that now, really, we’re expanding that quite significantly a program called purpose Forge, you know, which is five hours over seven weeks to connect and uncover your personal purpose. And we get tasters of that during purpose week, and to see people come to the end of the 40 minute session or an hour and a half session, and see them take those steps towards connecting with their personal purpose and just to see the energy that they take out of the room having done that. I mean, it has people who would have been saying to us, there’s, oh, my God, this isn’t a conversation I expected to have at work. Or, Wow, this is, you know, you don’t see others investing time in our people in the way, you know, Kate and G’s doing so, you know, in this area of purpose, and I think it’s that individual purpose work with, we’ve really focused on because, you know, one of that, you know, another core belief is, unless you can fit, you know, your personal purpose, to some extent, into your team’s role, and then fit your team’s role into bringing to life Burns purpose. You haven’t you’re not Gen you’re not genuinely tapping into that energy there. You know that is the power of purpose. And there’s a bit of Harvard. There’s a Harvard published, a Harvard published piece of research that we always go back to that says, if you can make that fit between your personal purpose and your firm or your organization’s purpose, you’re 14 times more likely to want to come to work. And as I say to everyone who doesn’t want to rash. Imagine rash. Wow.
Graeme Cowan 41:59
That is extraordinary. Are you aware of other organizations that are doing a lot of work around purpose? I
Richard Boele 42:06
participated last year in a PhD students project, and she’s introduced me to over 70 chief purpose officers around the world. Until I participated in that research Graeme, I would have gone. I’ve Googled, and I Google and I found nothing, you know? I mean, yes, you find a handful here or a handful there. But she’s actually found this cohort, which is just extraordinary, I think, over 72 purpose officers that she’s then interviewed, and she’s now publishing off the back of her work, as well as finishing off her PhD. So it’s certainly happening more than a sort of casual Google would suggest. And I think, I think there’s something there around, how do we take that? How to Respond to that increasing challenge, or that ongoing challenge, I know if it’s increasing but ongoing challenge from young people as they come into the workforce, for it to have more meaning, yeah, than when you and I came into the workforce and asked the meaning from our employer to grow because we wanted meaning out of the work. There’s no question about that. I think more mean is expected, we know, and hence that conscious process of being able to articulate it’s much more, it’s much more powerful conversation to have with a manager. You can go, Look, my personal purpose is to create moments of magic where all voices are heard. Now you can work with that right as a manager, you can come and go, Oh, okay, all right then, well, how about where we expand this aspect of your role? Because that’ll allow you to bring that part of your purpose to life are different. Yeah, that’s it. It’s got to be much easier, right? And then, soon as you’re doing that with your purpose, what are you doing? You’re just generating so many more levels of meaning around the work people do it because it’s focused on what do I even can bring how I do this role in 19 and then ultimately you’ve got to be able to make that connection to the firm’s purpose. And that was why Andrew, when he rang me up, and three years ago, he said, Richard, I want you to be the chief purpose officer at KPMG. And I was like, that’s your question. That’s why are there many? And yeah, I googled and I could find nothing. And he said, Oh, look, in preparation for my CEO role, I’ve looked around and I’ve seen a lot of purpose statements that I would suggest are sort of languishing, a bit of marketing taglines, yeah, don’t I don’t want that, because I genuinely believe that when purpose is built to light, you create energy, you create aspiration. And ultimately fabulous performance. And that’s Andrew’s drive, right? There’s he’s got a chief purpose officer, because ultimately he wants that contribute to the performance that coconut.
Graeme Cowan 44:51
It must be also, I believe you mentioned the younger people coming through and their death for more meaning and purpose in work and all this. Say that, but we’re also in incredibly volatile times, aren’t we? You know, there’s many things contributing to that, AI, geopolitical tensions, all the things that are happening around around the world. So you would hope that it does have a greater profile in organizations. If someone is working for an organization where that’s not happening, what advice would you give them to begin the path to understanding their purpose?
Richard Boele 45:32
Well, I guess there’s, I mean, there’s two things there. One is, what do you do to invite the organization to be curious about the power of purpose, particularly in relation to performance. And I mentioned just one piece of research, there is a really strong body of work that’s been done around personal purpose. There’s great there are genuinely, really borrowed a lot from the work of Nick Craig, who’s leading from purpose, you know, he’s probably, you know, wanted to better now and better now. And speakers and publishers, and I think the research is there, the evidence is there in terms of the role that purpose can play in organizational performance, in terms of personal purpose, genuinely, I’d recommend people do look at things like Nick Craig’s work lead from purpose as a great kind of stepping through the process. You You have Simon zinnick as well. He’s kind of short, sharp and quite, quite to the point around purpose. I think Nick Craig’s work is a bit more structured and is easier from a self directed point of view to kind of follow and, you know, I think there’s more and more people who are doing work around personal purpose. I just everyone sort of does it slightly differently for us, because we, you know, we’ve had the opportunity to really define and hone what we do now with purpose Forge, using KPMG as our sandpit. Right now, we have that privilege to be able to do that only now, after two years of his scaling within KPMG and everything we’ve developed, we will take to our clients. Right so we will offer, we’ll offer what we’ve done internally and what we’re doing at the moment we experience as well. But purpose Forge, yeah, key beliefs in that is, as I’ve already mentioned, that your purpose is written in the past and genuinely, it’s for you. Can’t help being in whatever context. Doesn’t matter whether you’re at work, whether you’re at home, whether with friends. It’s a good way to test if I get close, but I can say my purpose statement in to my friends at the pub, and they’ll go, oh yeah, that’s you, you know, or I can say at work, and everyone will go, oh yeah, that’s you. Separate impact from purpose, because a lot of people do confuse or conflate, you know, I get up in the morning and I want to save orangutans, and that’s my purpose. Well, now that’s the impact, yeah, that you will have. What is it that you uniquely bring the saving orangutans. Yeah, that’s you. Yeah, that’s who you can’t help being that’s written in your past. It’s shaped by your past events and what you’ve experienced in the past. And when you connect with it now by articulating a purpose that you know, I always call a purpose statement, like a group of you know, a row of cups that you fill with meaning, and we just say that statement, what you’re doing is, is actually pouring out the meaning in front of those that you’re with, and that’s a wonderful opportunity for them to connect with you and for you to share with them. So that, to me, that’s the power of connection that comes through doing purpose work as well, which is where we’ve I’ve been really surprised, actually, about the sizes of teams and the challenges that be being asked to come and soft hold with teams at kp and G using purpose frame, you know, and that can be, you know, aligned around, you know, common role. What is our role? And we frame that using purpose to, you know, we’re going to be doing a piece of work in two weeks time, which is with a really extraordinary, high performing tenant. You know, they’re knocking the lights out, but what they want to do is not sit on their laurels. They want to tape it to the next level. And they’ve asked us to come in and do purpose frame work to do that. So really exciting to kind of see purpose framed team based work just broaden out across KPMG, and I genuinely am really curious about what we’re going to be able to do with the purpose
Graeme Cowan 49:27
practice, once we take people externals, I love how you come to life when you talk about them. That’s obviously that does really add fuel to your tank as well, which is fantastic. I heard, you know, I guess, a saying by Maya Angelou that is, you know, success is liking yourself, liking what you do, and liking how you do it. And so for each of us, that’s a different definition. And I think it’s another way looking at success, looking at purpose. You know, it is something when it’s really genuine, of something that. You’re proud of, intrinsically proud of, you know, looking at something outside. You’re looking at something within yourself. And I think that’s when it really comes out as well you’ve had, I used to be in recruitment for about 15 years, and I think you’ve had a very interesting career, you know, just amazing. But you can also see the connections, you know, and all the things that you just described. I always say, there’s genuinely
Richard Boele 50:26
a thread there. Particularly, you can draw that thread, and you go, you absolutely,
Graeme Cowan 50:31
absolutely, and the reason you made decisions along the way, confirm there is a pattern there. And you know, even in you know, the greatest personal tragedy, you’re able to see something there have benefited in those, obviously, lots and lots of pain and loss and adversity. So it’s it’s wonderful that even in something like that, and I think also of you know that person who we haven’t mentioned, a Viktor Frankl Man’s Search for Meaning, and you know the incredible agony he went through to, you know, come to writing that book and developing logo therapy and all that sort of stuff. And, you know, great pain. You know, real meaning, isn’t it? I always finish by asking a question, and that question is knowing what you know now. What advice would you give your let’s go to 21 when you arrived in China. What advice would you give that person now that you know, now what you know now,
Richard Boele 51:34
I don’t know. I genuinely struggling with it, because I kind of think surely you want to give advice that you’d make a better choice, right? Or you’d take a slightly different direction. There isn’t anything different that I’d want my 21 year old self to do, bizarrely, but kind of go, you know, if anything is just sort of almost like, relax, enjoy the ride. You know, it’s like, don’t be too worried about where you’ll end up, just focus on what you do best, because there’s opportunities will come. Those Crossroads have. They’ve always come for me, and I guess it’s a bit of trusting the universe in that respect. But no, there’s There’s nothing. There’s nothing there. I maybe think about setting up your own business a little bit earlier, but then, would I really want to have done that earlier? I don’t think so.
Graeme Cowan 52:27
But I think we just said, Relax and enjoy the journey. Yeah, that’s knowing that the, you know, the journey is just as important as the outcome, yeah, if not
Richard Boele 52:36
more important. You know, I just learned so much along the way. And, you know, honestly, you know, you kind of go, Oh, was that my bad luck in having such poor, you know, or difficult leaders, you know, in my early years. And I go, No, I learned so much more from them, so much quicker than if I’d had really good leaders right in the years. Because you do, you know, you just, you know those that rev you up the wrong way. You know those that those that are genuinely looking to work against you. They teach you so much more, so quicker, so much quicker. But having said that, I’m very pleased to have you know with the leaders that I have now around me, because I think I’ve earned it. But very pleased to have the permission that I have now to do what I’m doing with ni plates. At the moment, it’s, it’s genuinely exciting to be able to do something that’s different within, you know, professional services, and it does create a sense of excitement and a sense of energy as Nick and I said, we’re in the energy business, and I think I’ve probably been in the energy business my whole life. So that young self, yes, relax, enjoy the ride, and don’t forget, you’re in the energy business. How’s that? Yeah,
Graeme Cowan 53:51
I love that. It’s fantastic. Well, it’s been real pleasure having you on the show, Richard. And thanks for sharing so whole wholeheartedly about you know, the ups and downs of your life, and also, thanks for being a really great to make for me. You’ve really been there for me when I’ve been through some tough times as well. And, you know, good friends have got to be part of that ride, haven’t they?
Richard Boele 54:15
They do, they do. And it’s been absolutely mutual, because you’ve done the same for me, and that’s been greatly appreciated. Ryan, with certainly, yeah, just that, just that phone call every now and then. And the habit, right? I just love our regular walks. Doesn’t necessarily happen every week, but it does happen on a regular basis, on Thursday morning, and you make it a habit, and it’s funny how you miss it, right? Once you miss one or two, you’re like, No, better, give better, make sure it happens. And it is so good for your well being and mental health. It’s a really kind of that self care, as you would call it, right? Graeme, definitely
Graeme Cowan 54:45
self care isn’t selfish. Thanks very much. Enjoyed it. Enjoyed
Richard Boele 54:51
Graeme, thanks for
Graeme Cowan 54:52
to catch you up for a walk soon.
Richard Boele 54:55
On a Thursday, soon. All right, talk soon. Thanks
Graeme Cowan 54:58
for joining us. Today, we hope you’re inspired to strive for a culture of care that also leads to great results. If you’ve enjoyed this interview today, please rate us on your favorite podcast platform, and don’t forget to subscribe so that you don’t miss an episode. We also welcome any comments if you’re interested in seeing details about our scalable we care. 365 mental health training programs. Please visit us at We care. 360, five.com.au, our goal is to make these programs accessible, practical and ongoing. You can also find me, Graeme Cowan on LinkedIn, and I’d love to hear from you. And finally, if you’ve come across a senior leader who has impressed you and you think they’d be a great guest, please email us at support, at WeCARE 365.com.au, thanks once again for listening today.
