#75 From head to heart, Pam Buchanan, former MD of Nasdaq. and now CEO, Quantum Sense

DISCUSSED IN THIS EPISODE

• What caring in the workplace means for Pam.
• Navigating both the heights of corporate success and the depths of personal transformation.
• Introducing the holistic approach that has become the foundation of Pam’s work—Soul Health.

RESOURCES

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Transcript from the interview

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SPEAKERS

Graeme Cowan, Pam Buchanan

Graeme Cowan  00:02

Today’s guest is Pam Buchannan, who was formerly the managing director of NASDAQ for almost 15 years. In this capacity, she worked closely with entrepreneurs like Elon Musk and Mark Zuckerberg. Despite her professional success, she recognized her achievements were more attributable to more than just her physical and mental health. This led her to explore what she would eventually define as soul health. As you’re here, she thinks soul health has lots of overlap with concepts like spirit and life force. As the founder of quantum sense, she now applies her extensive corporate experience and personal development insights to help individuals and organizations achieve deeper meaning for anyone who’s achieved material success but feels a lack of meaning and purpose, I’m sure you’ll find Pam’s story and insights very interesting. Enjoy. It’s a real pleasure to welcome Pam. Buchannan, to the caring CEO. Welcome. Pam, hi. Great to be here. Thank you for having me My pleasure. What does care in the workplace mean to you? Pam,

Pam Buchanan  01:15

you know, care in the workplace really represents true relationships, developing relationships with, you know, your colleagues, your managers, in really developing a relationship with the corporate culture and the products and the services that you are representing. So it represents relationships at a deep, deep level and respect, you know, amongst each other towards a common goal. Absolutely, we’ve had a brief chat before we came on air, and I was just commenting that I was previously a recruiter for a long time and always interested in people’s careers. And would you mind giving our attendees a quick overview of your career today? Because it is, it is quite compelling in many ways. Yes, no, thank you. You know, I started out in the 80s, and obviously that seems like ancient times now. You know, graduated college and went right into the workplace, and I started in finance. And you know, a new item, if you will, or product was mutual funds. So asset management, you know, again, it was a newer phenomenon and the markets. And why I did that is, my dad was a commodities trader and the grain and corn and wheat business, so I wanted to, you know, be in the financial stock markets. And, you know, it was very, very exciting time, and Chicago was a good hub for that. And so I came up here, got an apartment, and started the job search, and I worked for some brokerage firms for a couple of years, and then I transitioned to, as I said, the mutual fund industry, and worked with a great team. We, you know, we were developing, you know, a sales team, a call center. And I rose in the ranks. I was very again, you know, lucky to continue to rise within that same company. It offered a lot of opportunities. So I went from being, you know, let’s call it a sales represent, representative to a, you know, manager, a senior manager, Senior Vice President of a whole division. And you know, that is going back a little while, and I suspect there weren’t a lot of women progressing the way that you did. Would that be a fair comment? Yeah, that would be a fair comment. You know, I never felt, you know, again, I looked at everyone as equal. And even if, let’s say that there wasn’t true equality at that time. We were in a newer industry, so you’re all building towards the same goal, which is educating people on the products that you’re representing, but also in sales, it kind of does even the landscape you know, you’re just as good as the sales that you bring in, right? So whether it is male, female, old, younger, you’re really judged on, okay? Are you bringing in your sales quota? So I think from that perspective, I picked a great career to be looked on for your accomplishments, not the gender. And then again, because I did, I worked very, very hard. And, you know, I think maybe as a woman, you overdo and work that much harder to keep up, you know, and succeed in a very competitive industry. So I was successful with that. And again, ran a division that targeted or worked with banks and financial entities, and again, very successful. Ran a team, you know, with different personalities, and there in itself is a problem. So progressing from, you know, just an individual team member to managing that team had, you know, it’s differences and skill sets that you had to learn. And I. Represent. So yes,

Graeme Cowan  05:02

And I’m sure there is lots of hard work, but is there anything else that, you know, you think just looking at people around you that you were doing different that enabled that progression.

Pam Buchanan  05:14

You know, I think it was respecting my teammates and being open to learning, right? So again, we were in a learning environment where we all learned from each other. So again, giving each of your teammates the respect and not looking at them as let’s call it competition, right? We’re all in the same boat, rowing towards the same destination. Let’s all work together, even though, of course, there’s always some, you know, healthy competition in there, but at the end of the day, we’re one team, and I think I had incredible bosses that gave each of the team members opportunities, right? I think it does start at the top, where, again, the leader respects the team and the individuals within that team, and doesn’t point out, or, you know, comment on others flaws, but encourages you to grow, you know, at your capabilities. And you know, I learned back then, and we can talk about this a little later, it relates to what I’m doing, but you know, you put your worst salesperson, let’s say you do have a salesperson that’s struggling, and you put them with the top salesperson, what would you expect that person would be pulled up a little bit, working and learning. But the opposite is true. The opposite is true because the negative molecule is heavier than the positive, so you have to, again, work that much harder to not be pulled down by that negativity. And so I do also coach and say, you know, if you do have a teammate that isn’t pulling their weight, it’s best that teammate go, because it would affect the other members of the team. Yeah, is very you have to really, really watch for that carefully.

Graeme Cowan  07:07

And your time at Deutsche Bank, you had 10 years there was it a different culture to some of the American firms you’d work with.

Pam Buchanan  07:15

um, you know, I it was so it was an American firm that got acquired many times. So it was a mutual fund insurance company actually that, and it got at the end of the day, acquired by Deutsche Bank. So I was a little bit removed from that, and really worked with the American side of Deutsche Bank. So I wasn’t as ingrained in that international culture, if you will, because I was focused on our American clients and American banks and financial institutions

Graeme Cowan  07:49

and and then the transition to NASDAQ, and you were there for 15 years. Were you managing director the whole time or part of that time? Yes, I was managing director the whole time. So I had really basically one role, and that was to develop relationships with companies that were starting out and looking to possibly go public. Yeah. So in in that, you build out a whole subculture of support, meaning the banks involved, the lawyers involved, the accountants involved. So you become a team of support for that. You know, Founder, CEO, company that is taking their company public. It’s an intense time. And you know, having that team that you don’t necessarily again, it’s not like they work with you day by day, but you really are a team within a team, if you will,

Pam Buchanan  08:46

for that, for that company, you know, working together to, you know, take a company public, and it must have been a time of incredible growth you look at, you know, some of The big firms that have come on during that period from 2005 to 2020

Graeme Cowan  09:05

and I see that, you know, in that role, you come across people like Mark Zuckerberg and Elon Musk who were

Pam Buchanan  09:13

wanting to launch their businesses. Yes, yes, absolutely. I think when you’re at the beginning of a company. It it gives you different insight into how hard it is and what it takes to really build a company from scratch. You know, we can all look at the Googles, the linkedins, the Facebooks, the Teslas as big major corporations now, but they weren’t that when I worked with them. So, you know, the hard work and effort that was put in to build a company, I think everyone should have the opportunity to, you know, see something built from the ground up. It truly does give you different perspective, just even the biotech companies, and whether it, you know. Is some sort of, you know, drug that they’re developing, whether it’s, you know, even consumer companies, you know, developing their product, it takes a lot. It takes a lot of moving parts. Takes a lot, you talk about hard work. It’s a almost a 24/7 commitment from their side. And, you know, typically, if you’re creating something that is so new, like, let’s say a Facebook or a Tesla. There’s a lot of naysayers out there, right? And a lot of people going, what’s this? You know, like, Facebook is, you know, developed based on Mark wanting to collect addresses or phone numbers or photos from college, you know college directory, right? And now it’s become what it is. So you have to pivot quite a bit too, and that’s where you have to keep your mind open. So I learned an incredible amount. I think the most important thing I learned is the commitment to the journey, the commitment to the journey, and the ups and downs, because it’s not going to be all straight up like people love. Let’s even say Elon Musk, which is a controversial, you know, topic in these days, but Elon worked very hard and committed to, you know, bringing EVs along with, let’s just throw in space rockets right to the consumer, you know, taking it a consumer brand. And you know how many times that he almost didn’t make it right? You know, a car company had not gone public in over 100 years. You know, when it went public, it was valued at a billion dollars, let’s say, and now look at it, yeah, multi, multi, multi, billions.

Graeme Cowan  11:47

Yes, absolutely. And when you met people like that, did work, architects of tremendous success, and you mentioned they were really committed. They worked hard. Was there anything else that made the real winners stand out, the superbooks or the musks stand out, apart from that intense work ethic and that sort of thing?

Pam Buchanan  12:11

Yeah, you know, obviously they’re very bright, right? There, there is a matter of intelligence, but it’s their curiosity, right? Their curiosity to learn and grow. It never stops. You know, let’s say that you’re an engineer, you’re a doctor, you’re a marketer, like Steve Jobs was a marketer, but yet you want to create products that you don’t have. You know, exact knowledge. It’s not like they woke up one morning and said, Oh, I know how to build an iPhone or a car. You know? They had to learn. So it’s their commitment to learning that is also so critical. I think when you’re starting out, and I think those are good life skills, every day is a different day. We’re in a huge era of change and involvement. And so I think you know, for the person in today’s world, in their career, is to be open minded and to really show that I’m committed to whether it is the company, you know, your team, that I’m here and I’m going to help build whatever we are building. And I think that was probably one of my strongest skills. I’m committed, I’m here, yeah. And how do you get that employee right? And that’s what I think today’s world struggles with, is that, you know, the individuals out there aren’t as committed, you know, and they’re moving from company to company, and that hurts the company, right? Definitely does. They have to train again? I mean, for every employee they lose. You know, the cost to train a new employee, whether that be a simple training or a complex training, is enormous, and it puts a lot of stress on the team members. A lot of stress, I would say, commitment to the corporation, the team yourself, you know, and it starts with you, and that’s where, you know, I talk about soul health, because what’s missing, you know, companies have, I mean, out in Silicon Valley, you know, these were campuses of little cities, little hubs of, you know what they had? You know, their cafeterias with great food. They have their, you know, their sports and workout they had, you know, just communities built where you could chit chat and relax with your colleagues. That’s, I do think it’s important at some level, to get people back to work and creating that community within a community, right? And Silicon Valley, that’s what they did. I mean, they were very good at them, very good. So you felt the part of building something. And I think when it that’s heavy work, right, to build something, build the foundation, build out the product, build out the various teams that are going to support that whole company. So

Graeme Cowan  14:57

Were there any particular tough times you went through at NASDAQ,

Pam Buchanan  15:02

you know, there again, I was competing with the New York Stock Exchange, so it was one on one, right? So it was the Super Bowl every day, you know, or a basketball football game. There was one winner there’s one loser, yeah. And so that’s a tough environment to live in, but again, you have to have the team to support you, you know, the NASDAQ colleagues to support you. You have to enjoy the game, right? You have to really enjoy the game and be focused on, you know, what value you were bringing. And it was very multi dimensional. You know, every day was not the same day, which I enjoyed, right? The complexity of it, solving the problems. How do I, you know, when you know, like a Tesla and a Facebook, what it what does that involve? So, every company is different, right? So am I working with the CEO and the CFO? Am I working with the marketing? What’s important to them? How can I support them? You know, you want to be part of their overall community, right? And, you know, I lived in Silicon Valley, so you would see these people on a daily basis at the coffee shop. So you really were, I think we’ve lost that team concept of we’re here as a community and a team to support each other, yeah? What led to deciding to leave NASDAQ. You know, I did that for almost 15 years, and it was very intense. I did move back to the Chicago area and took companies public at the end of my career at NASDAQ in Chicago, which was a different different gang, if you will. And I apologize for my dog there barking, but we’re real time, right? So he was sleeping a minute ago, and now he wants my attention, but, but, you know, it was 15 years I had outlasted most of my colleagues in terms of that position because of the intensity of it, and I wanted to move on. You know, it was time in my career to move on and do something a little bit different. You know, it was just that, I don’t want to say I was worn out. I was worn out, you know, you get to a point and you have to recognize, wow, the passion has left. You know, the game has changed a little bit. You know, I’m I want to do something else with the time I have left, and, you know, I’ve seen a lot that other people may not have seen. So I created a company that focuses on, you know, working with companies that are creating cultures that so important to support the growth and success of their own companies.

Graeme Cowan  17:37

Definitely, I want to get into that in some detail. But just forwarded NASDAQ. Did you have any overlap with Bernie Madoff when he was chairman of NASDAQ? No, that was a little before my time.

Pam Buchanan  17:50

That was in the 70s. So he did, yes, he did create, help create the NASDAQ trading systems, if you will. So he was also a smart guy, but that’s where you know the checks and balances need to be in place, right for someone that can go a little off track. Shelton,

Graeme Cowan  18:11

no, I have, I have to say, no, no worries. And so from NASDAQ, I guess, to a more traditional role. Emily James, that was three years. What sort of business was that?

Pam Buchanan 18:24

So say that again, what was that? What sort of business was Everly? John, what business so that was more of a retail business, and what I wanted to do was bring more meaning to the products that you purchase. Again, why are we in this consumerism where, you know, we’re, you know, seeing a lot of images and saying, Oh, I must have that, and I must have that, and I must have that. And there’s really no like stopping yourself and saying, Oh, why am I buying that? Is it really, other than, you know, I have 20 lipsticks over here. Why do I need another lipstick or another pair of shoes? As he’s swimming so Eberly James is a products company that I put together products and gloves on. Why you feel me flying through your senses, you know, and it’s a sincere experience, like, what the smell, the textures you know, from your toes to your bath products to your furniture. It’s a sensory experience. Yes, we have health resources that you can find at we care 360, five.com.au,

Graeme Cowan  19:38

the first is our mental ill health calculator, which is a quick and simple way to work out what poor mental health costs your organization in lost productivity and employee turnover. You will also find our building a mentally healthy culture checklist, which shows how to launch a great initiative and keep that momentum going. In these resources can be found at, we care 360, five.com.au, so Pam, it seems like a very different business to found autumn sense. Can you explain what autumn sense is and why you thought it was important to start that business? Yes, so I felt that something was missing in the corporate world. And you hear and see articles of how unhappy people are at their jobs. And what is it? Because corporations are offering you gym memberships, and you know dietitians, and you know everything for your physical health, and then, of course, we have mental health days, but what’s missing is your soul health. And what is your soul? And a lot of people don’t recognize what that is. So your soul should be included in when we’re talking about our beings, because we’re mind, body and soul. We’re complex entity, and I think we spend a lot of time on our physical health, which is very important. If you were to have a problem with your heart, you know, you know where to go, right? Yeah, you now have a problem with your mental state. It’s very, you know, everyday experience to go to your therapist or a doctor that can possibly prescribe medication, but the soul is where you really, truly have that passion, or that you know, that fullness, that enjoyment of life. And so why aren’t we talking about that more? Yeah, why aren’t we talking about the soul? And what I found is that people equate it to religion, and so religion is a taboo topic that you shouldn’t be talking about at work in particular, but it really isn’t about religion. It’s still about your being. So if we can talk about your physical being and your mental being, why can’t we talk about your soul being, and what are you doing for that soul. So how do you define that? How do you find soul, a life force or a spirit? What is your definition of soul? Yeah, it is a life force, right? It is. It’s an energetic life force within your physical body. So why we haven’t grasped onto it is because it is invisible, right? Like, if you said, I have a heart problem, I can visualize that. If you said, Oh my God, you know, I’m not feeling fulfilled. My soul is not, you know, feeling great. I can’t visualize that, yeah, so we need to put some visualization, and that’s why, what’s individual to each of us is our senses, our sensory being, just like you would find, let’s say, a smell enticing. It might be related to an emotion from a childhood, or it might be just something that your sensory body enjoys, versus, let’s say I walk in and I’m like, Oh, what’s that? Smell?

Pam Buchanan  23:08

It doesn’t resonate with me. So let’s start by getting to know our sensory body, which we’ve had since we were born, right? And we kind of just put off because it, it’s there all the time. You don’t really have to think about it, but let’s start thinking with intent, like our environments. I talk about outside in, right? Let’s look at our environment and then see how it processes within us. And that’s your soul outside in, yep. So what does what do your walls look like? What does your furniture look like? What is the smell? Yeah, you know, and you see more and more corporations focused in on the look of their environment. You’re seeing more and more sensory experiences, especially with nature being built out right there in Australia, I talk to a lot of people that are into, you know, bringing nature inside and building out buildings within an architectural landscape that is soothing and, you know, evokes joy and happiness versus just a concrete building. So let’s start looking at that, because that’s important. That’s important for grounding. So I start with ground into your senses, then you can elevate into that joy, that energetic, that higher energetic being, that positive being. And again, it’s hard to stay there. We all fluctuate day to day, right hour to hour. You know, one moment you’re on the phone, frustrated because your Amazon order didn’t get there, the next minute, your child’s come in to give you a hug and a kiss. So we all fluctuate between that negative, positive, you know, higher vibration, lower. Vibration, and what our goal is to live more in that higher vibration, right? That gives us that joy, and that’s the challenge. And I don’t think you know, I’m not looking for perfection, right, where, oh, I’m 100% you know, but you’re looking more towards what can give me that joy? And again, I think if companies embrace this at the soul level, then they will find that commitment, and that’s so important, the commitment, the engagement, you know. You want people engaged fully, you know. And so I think that’s what’s you know next in our corporate lives. One of the things that I do in my keynote presentations is ask people to reflect on a great team they’ve been part of, you know, could have been this role, or previous role, or in a sports team, or when they worked at McDonald’s, and what was it that made it great? What was it that makes it different when they look around the people, what was it that makes it different? And I give people about 10 options, and some would be like, a compelling vision. Some of it could be like, you know, complementary strengths, and people vote anonymously, but in 95% of the cases, the top three things mentioned are, we enjoyed ourselves. We had each other’s back, and we cared about each other. And when people discuss that, because they often have to discuss it amongst themselves, what was made it different? And you do see the energy in the room lift when people reflect on that great team. And I think that is a big missing element. There’s a lot of loneliness at work at the moment. There’s a lot of discussion. There’s a lot of instability and uncertainty. And you know, uncertainty is probably the greatest stressor of people at the moment, because it is quite profound and unrelenting. What can companies do to lessen that angst around uncertainty and just mercurial change and almost the loss of the personal touch. Yes, absolutely, yeah. Well, I think coming together right more often and creating that team, and it does start with the leader, you know, to create that team. And they may not, I mean, they may think, Well, why do we need to get to know our team members at a more personal level? Well, I think that creates more commitment to the team. And it takes a team to build a company, to make keep the company running. It’s not individuals. I mean, it is individuals, but at a team, togetherness, if you will. Everybody has their role. And you bring up sports, that’s a perfect sample. That’s intense, right? For the hour two hour, three hours that they’re on the floor winning, and they’re all committed towards one goal, and that’s to win the game, right? And they have each other’s backs. They have each other’s backs. So how can we have each other’s backs? And I think if you just, if you don’t know a person at all, and they’re just an individual, like, oh, that’s Pam on my team, yeah, I think she lives in the city and has a dog. That’s not much, right? Like, you need to know your team at a deeper, deeper level, you know, and I promote, you know, let’s go out for a soul,

Graeme Cowan  28:27

a soul hour, right? Let’s get to know each other in a different way, like something that really ignites joy in that person. And let’s learn. Let’s take an hour and just learn about what the joy is, yeah, for that person, and again, the CEO, the manager, may find that, well, that’s not a good use of our time. Yes, it is. It’s a very valuable use of time that we’ve kind of put by the wayside for productivity, right? You know, is that productive? Does that contribute to the bottom line. And I would say, yes, it does contribute to the bottom line because it keeps people talented, people at your organization. Well, Gallup, have a engagement survey called the Q 12. One of those statements in there is that my supervisor or someone at work seems to care about me as a person. That’s one of the statements. Another one is, I have a best friend at work. And when groups strongly agree with those two, the higher the productivity, the profit, the customer service levels. And you know, there is really tangible evidence that shows that having a collective culture where people do have each other’s back, they can enjoy working together. It does have productivity benefits and also innovation benefits. You know, the most innovative teams have high psychological safety, and that’s where they’re free to be their authentic self. It’s where they don’t feel afraid to make.Suggestions, they know that they won’t be shot down. You know, challenging ideas, and you know they are critical success factors now, but there seems to be, you know, in some ways, people understand they’re trying to do something about it, but the other ways, you know, it suddenly becomes very process oriented, and KPIs and profitability and all this stuff. I was just going to mention KPIs, because that does take the personal part out of it, right? It does. And everyone’s gone on the KPI bandwagon, and maybe it can show numbers, but it’s showing numbers because you don’t know the person. Yeah, you don’t know? Well, I know Pam is out there working day and night, night and day. I don’t need a KPI to measure her, right? Like, oh, or oh, let’s say that you need to see. Let’s say you have 100 clients. You need to see all of them once, and you check the box. Yeah? Well, are you really giving the value to the client? If your employee is just checking the box, yeah, yeah, and so the manager is one step removed from it. And maybe there’s instances where a KPI does truly measure the success, but I’m a big advocate for saying, No, it does not measure the productivity and the success of the individual or the company and that again, let’s bring in real conversation. Let’s not pull up a spreadsheet and say, Oh, look how many entries there are in the computer for you know, John versus Pam versus ed. I just don’t think that’s a great way to to manage a team. Yeah, yeah. I agree that that you would hope that there is a resurgence in more of that soul or spirit or life force recognition in the workplace. But there’s also also, you know, I guess, some incredible cruelty going on the world. I mean, we look at, you know, Ukraine. We look at Gaza, you know, we even look to part of the aftermath, the changing of the administration in US, where, you know, things like USA, which supported the rest of the world in terms of helping and supporting stuff, was entirely shut down and huge emphasis to cut a trillion dollars from the administration, that has got to lead to a lot of pain, a lot of burnout, and also real cost, real human cost our communities and in that area, how do you reconcile some of these trends to what you’re trying to advocate for?

Pam Buchanan  32:51

Well, it’s even more important, and that the people that you do have within that team that are there, that they do feel valued and recognized for their whole being, not just a for lack of a better term, a robot that comes in, checks in with the clock and then checks out, right? Like that. There is more meaning behind that work, and I’m not here to say that. Yes, we’ve all worked every I feel like almost every year, over 40 years, there was always layoffs, right? You know, there’s always ups and downs, hirings for hiring freezes. You know, the way they’re doing it, obviously, is causing a lot of concern, and the numbers are big. And again, it is alarming. So the soul work is even more important for those that are left. And how do you help the manager, really, who’s left? And to say, Oh, wow, I used to have 20, and now I have five, yeah. How are we going to divide and conquer and make an impact in our department, right? How are we going to do that? So they need to stick, take a step back, and really, the first question they should ask is, how am I going to bring, you know, value of the whole being, the soul being, not just the work being, but the whole person to work so that we can have satisfaction as we go for our goal? And is the goal changed? Yeah, you know, let’s have an open conversation, I guess, and not behind closed doors, but let’s have an open conversation.

Graeme Cowan  34:29

There’s a fabulous Northwestern commencement speech, which I really, I could, I’m sure would resonate with yourself, by Governor Pritzker, and he apparently is a billionaire and is the governor of one of the states, but he talks about how to spot an idiot. And he says that idiots can be very successful, idiots, you know, can seem to be getting ahead. But how you spot an idiot is cruelty. And an idiot is cruel, and that obviously has massive implications, or soul implications. But by the same token, he says, kindness is intelligence. You know, it’s a kindness intelligence which will really win out. So we’ve got these really dichotomous approaches and philosophies. And I guess we often do go on a swing, don’t we? You know, we oscillate to one style, and then it’s found not to work, and it swings back Sabbath through the other style, and it comes back again. And I guess that’s just the cycles of life. And you know that is part of being human and part of being in the world. But for all those people that are experiencing, you know, these very dramatic layoffs at the moment, what advice would you give to them in terms of restoring their soul, restoring their spirit? I would give them advice and saying, you know, tell yourself it, it’s you brought value. It’s something that’s happening outside of yourself you did not contribute to that they can tell you that, oh, we’re laying off the low performers. Or, you know, but by all accounts, it seems random, right, but you did the best you could, and you gave it your all. Or you could ask yourself, geez, was I slacking off there a little bit, and maybe I didn’t have joy. Why didn’t I have that joy? Was it the job itself? Was it my manager? Was it my teammate? So it’s really time to self evaluate, but also

Pam Buchanan  36:43

give yourself moments of joy, because really in life, that’s all we have, and moments change as they just experience, you know, a layoff or being fired or being let go, and you do, you know it is one of the more jarring things that happen in life, but surround yourself with your support team, your friends, your family, surround yourself with that. Take yourself out of that instant of being laid off and again. Give yourself some time, right? Don’t put pressure on. Oh, my God, I gotta immediately go get another job, etcetera, etcetera, but give yourself some time and pause. So I would say, you know, surround yourself with support, loving support and pause. Yeah, that’s very important. And then start asking yourself the question, what really brings me the joy in my life? How does that look, what industries does that look like? What types of people do I want to be around? And intentionally, then start looking for a job. So you bring up Governor prixcher. I know him, so that’s very interesting that you brought him up. He’s a great guy and very kind. And I’m actually here in Illinois, in Chicago, so I’ve interacted with him quite a bit. I just thought I’d say an important message for where we are absolutely and that’s why it is so important that we uplift like you and I bring the uplifting messages to the world, right? Let’s get out there and try to stay on the positive, because the negative is heavy. And how do you do that? Turn off your TV. Only watch funny comedies, you know, listen to music that you know, there is science behind the frequencies and how it can, you know, elevate your being. There’s a lot of that. Go to Spotify, plug in the frequency music you know, or music that you enjoy, or brings back positive emotion you know, find a sense for your home again, that brings back positive emotion, you know, bring food into your home that nourishes your body. So again, that starts with the sensory being. So let’s go back to our census. Let’s come to our senses. Yeah,

Graeme Cowan  39:06

it’s well, I worked in our placement for quite a while, and one of the biggest things that people struggle with is associating themselves with what they do. You know, I’m a stockbroker, I’m a lawyer, or I’m a, you know, a general manager. And when they’re not doing that, it they almost have lost themselves. They haven’t got that sort of a description of themselves. And I love some of the things you talked about, you know, getting your care team around you, people that do have your best interests at heart, people do support you, encourage you, and also doing things. I taught this concept of one thing. And the one thing is something you do. It’s individual, but it it particularly resonates with you. You’re in the present moment when you do it, and then often good things follow from it. And you know, for some people, that can be things like x.

Pam Buchanan  40:00

Size or quality time with family and friends. But it can also be things like, you know, meditation or fishing or movies, whatever. And, you know, I think all those things, and if we do them, enough are good for us, yeah. And it can’t even be going to your local Starbucks and seeing the barista that you enjoy seeing, right, absolutely. And if that brings you the joy, go every day Absolutely, get a cup for coffee. And if that’s your only moment of joy, that is a good start, right? Yeah. And then let’s start, you know, with adding something else. Like, okay, I do like to exercise. And, you know, go to my favorite gym where I see my buddies, or, you know, I do like to walk the neighborhood and look at the beautiful trees and flowers that are blooming. But start small, right? And then just keep adding, but make sure you’re adding the joy filled Yeah, moments, not the negative moments. You know, there could be a coffee place that, you know the baristas aren’t as friendly. Well, why go there like you realize? Well, no, do I have to go there? I can go around the block to another place that I might enjoy a little bit better.

Graeme Cowan  41:15

Yeah, it’s been fabulous catching up. Pam, and love hearing a lot about your journey. I’ve always finished by asking people what know, what you know now? What advice would you give your 18 year old self? If you could speak to that person and give them some tips or insights, what would you share with them? Probably a lot of people say this, but not just stress as much, everything will work out okay, because we know we’ve been in those moments where you’re like, Oh, my God, I made a mistake. My boss is going to fire me. I’m horrible. And you know, it may be a week before all of a sudden, you realize, okay, I’m still here. It’s okay. I made a mistake. Everyone makes a mistake. So think that you know, and even, let’s say, that you made a mistake that got you fired, right? Like it’s going to work out. It will be okay. It will all be okay. You know, we’ll all be okay. So thank you. That is great advice, and thanks for being part of the caring CEO, Pam, thank you for having me. Thanks for joining us today. We hope you’re inspired to strive for a culture of care that also leads to great results. If you’ve enjoyed this interview today, please rate us on your favorite podcast platform, and don’t forget to subscribe so that you don’t miss an episode. We also welcome any comments if you’re interested in seeing details about our scalable we care 365, mental health training programs. Please visit us at WeCARE365.com.au, our goal is to make these programs accessible, practical and ongoing. You can also find me, Graeme Cowan on LinkedIn, and I’d love to hear from you. And finally, if you’ve come across a senior leader who has impressed you and you think they’d be a great guest. Please email us at support, at wecare365e.com.au. Thanks once again for listening today.

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